Patrick Pretty ‘Poof’ Penalty Plagues Portal Posters
A poster at the Pro-AdSurfDaily Surf’s Up forum has just made brief posts in 11 separate threads in a period of only minutes. The effect of the posts was to knock a post pertaining to this Blog’s coverage of the indictment against ASD mainstay “Professor” Patrick Moriarty off the front page at Surf’s Up.
The poster punctuated his burst of activity by starting a thread titled, “Overrun With Rats, Bed Bugs, Maggots, Cockroaches And Everything Else.”
In the thread, he advised readers about what he had just done.
“This is what happens when you leave a forum go on by itself,” he said. “What would you do if this forum was shut down[?] Would you miss it????”
The move came on the heels of recent deletions at Surf’s Up that referenced our reporting on the ASD case. Surf’s Up announced Friday that it had a “poof!” policy with respect to this Blog.
Mention the Patrick Pretty.com Blog at Surf’s Up and your post may go “poof!” It even may go “poof!” if you do not mention the name of this Blog, if the Mods can ascertain that the information might have originated here.
Two such threads on prosecutors’ recent actions in the ASD case went “poof!” over the weekend, and yesterday an individual post that referenced our reporting Sunday on the Moriarty indictment went “poof!”
A different member, however, started a new Moriarty thread later yesterday in which another Surf’s Up member referenced our Sunday and Monday reports — and it survived for hours, before being knocked to the second page this morning in a furious burst of posts.
Surf’s Up management, so far, has chosen to say nothing about the Moriarty indictment or even inform members about it.
Here is the official explanation for the “poof!” policy from Surf’s Up Mod Barb McIntyre. McIntyre announced the policy Friday night.
“[P]osting PP BS is nothing but stirring trouble so I am calling the other mods and don’t be surprised if it goes ‘poof!'” McIntyre said.
McIntyre, along with Moriarty, was one of five co-founders of a defunct organization known as ASD Members International (ASDMI). The organization registered as a Missouri nonprofit in October, making the strange claim that it would litigate against government entities involved in the AdSurfDaily case — even if they were behaving legally. If lawsuits didn’t work, then perhaps ASDMI would see about having prosecutors charged with crimes.
ASDMI existed for less than 90 days — Oct. 30, 2008 through Jan. 26, 2009. The process of dissolving the entity actually began on Dec. 10, about 41 days after its founding. Formal papers were signed Jan. 21, and the dissolution was recorded Jan. 26.
ASDMI gathered contributions from at least 167 ASD members before dissolving itself. No lawsuit was filed. Even after ASDMI ceased business, Surf’s Up continued to promote Moriarty. McIntyre sent an email to members, announcing an important letter Moriarty had written to Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Despite the fact ASD’s assets were seized as the proceeds of a criminal wire-fraud, money-laundering and Ponzi-scheme operation, Moriarty advised Leahy that the Senate should set its sights on the prosecutors who prevented the scheme from mushrooming globally — not Andy Bowdoin, the person responsible for organizing the scheme
“Over 50 individual and notarized DEMAND[S] FOR LEGAL EVIDENCE were sent to Jeffrey Taylor, US Attorney; William Cowden, Assistant US Attorney; and Roy Dotson, Special Agent, US Secret Service,†Moriarty said in the February letter to Leahy.
“Not once did any of these three Government Servants respond,†Moriarty said.
“Innocent Americans have suffered and continue to suffer because of these incredulous and despicable acts†by prosecutors, Moriarty said.
Yesterday this Blog reported that, in 2006, Moriarty set up a nonprofit in the name of a man accused of breaking into a woman’s home and murdering her. The man also shot a police officer four times and another man eight times. The man pleaded guilty to first-degree (premeditated) murder last month.
The Power Of ‘Poof!’
If you have some money — and if you believe anything you read on the PatrickPretty.com Blog — McIntyre will sell you a bridge in Arizona, she said.
“Comes with ocean frontage,” McIntyre added.
Posting a reference to PatrickPretty.com is an act consistent with “trouble makers” and inconsistent with adult behavior, McIntyre advised.
“We fixed the forum so that the trouble makers could not harass and most of you are not troublemakers and do not need babysitting…or so we thought,” she said.
Patrick,
Not overly surprising, considering those involved. They have a long habit of denying things in hope that they will simply go away, like Andy’s legal problems. Most cults wold kill for followers like this. But then, most cults tell members not to believe anything an “outsider” tells them, as it is untrue and unclean. Should Andy ever go to prison, they won’t believe that either, even during an inmate visit. But you do have to credit them with being loyal, or is it something else??
wold = would, not enough coffee yet….
Hi Don,
The “Overrun With Rats, Bed Bugs, Maggots, Cockroaches And Everything Else” thread was a clear rebuke to the Surf’s Up Mods for not adequately monitoring the forum to keep it safe from outside influences — and also a rebuke to Surf’s Up members who’d dare have the temerity to exercise their own minds.
The behavior has become increasingly paranoid, and seems even to be affecting the AVG forum set up by some of the Surf’s Up Mods and members.
As you’re aware, the prosecutors have referred to Bowdoin as head of a flock and a person who has “followers.” The cult references have been part of this from the beginning, and some ASD members have responded by conflating even stranger realities when the need arises.
Thanks for your note — and enjoy your cofee — oops, coffee.
Patrick
Like everyone else, the shenanigans on the Surfs Up forum come as no surprise. I have been unable to post anything there- even “I love Andy”- for months now. any post with my name attached is deleted on site, irrespective of its content. lol
What is sad is that there are still ASD members who go to Surfs Up from time to time to find out what is happening with the prosecution of ASD and the fate of their investments. They encounter the forum in a lamentable state of censorship and inaccuracy and many do not know where else to go for information.
Patrick,
Perhaps you should focus on correcting the mis-statements of the Government in this case. They are everywhere. That would make for some very interesting columns, and would get you back on surf’s up. Start with the one about how Mr Bowdoin guaranteed his investors 125% return on their investments. Now I ask you, can anything be more inaccurate? Is the Government called to task for it? The forum just wants accurate and fair reporting and they don’t get that from you…yet. I await the columns where you quetion the governments inaccuracies.
Corrections, or is that your real name??? By the way, Andy said over open conference calls, on numerous occasions that he paid 125% of all investments, depending on daily percentages based on income. Or something to that effect. Your argument is inaccurate, like most of the ASD followers. It is now and always was a scam. Same as AVGA. Same crooks, different name.
CORRECTION,
Refer to Government Exhibit 3 of the August forfeiture complaint, which reproduces ASD’s Terms of Service.
You’ll see these words FROM ASD:
“Advertisers will be paid rebates until they receive 125% of their
ad purchases.”
You also might want to refer to Government Exhibit 5, for these words from Andy Bowdoin himself.
“I’ve asked the question, time and time again – ‘Andy, are you ever going to
reduce rebates?’ Folks, this is what’s built the company. It’s a very unique
concept we have here, and rebates is what makes it happen. This is what
creates the members, that creates the interest for the national advertisers.”
Bowdoin is telling the Miami rally troops that he knows they joined ASD because of the rebates, not the advertising. Basically, he acknowledged in front of hundreds and hundreds of people that ASD was selling unregistered securities.
He had a chance to “beat” this at the evidentiary hearing by producing an audited balance sheet to refute the prosecution’s claim ASD was involvent.
He didn’t do so.
While you’re at it, you might want to review the entire December forfeiture complaint, along with Bowdoin’s pro se filing in which he acknowledges ASD was operating illegally.
Also of note is the prosecution filing in which the government reveals Bowdoin signed a proffer letter and told law enforcement that ASD was operating illegally.
Patrick
Patrick,
Please read the original government civil filling. How do they refer to advertising purchases? From day one their rhetoric was biased, inaccurate and done to make their case. Rebates are not securities when Proctor and Gamble gives them or Ford or Chevy. Rebates are legal to encourage purchases in every other venue but this one. Why? Tell that story Patrick…and while you are at it, define rebates to me please.
Don,
The words “something to that effect” don’t cut it. What did he say word for word on tape please? The 125% was the cap and you know it. No one in a position of authority guaranteed 125% return, FDIC insured or anything like that. Accurate and fair is all I ask. Advertising was purchased, not investments made. It was not a scam and you sir are inaccurate in your assesment. Fair and accurate is my standard, and both sides fall short everyday. See I can admit that I’m not right all the time. Fair and accurate, fair and accurate….please! Thank you.
A rebate is an amount paid by way of reduction, return, or refund on what has already been paid or contributed. :-)
Yup, and rebates are in fact legal. What CORERECTION! can’t seem to get straight is you simply cannot combine people making tons of $$$ from what he calls rebates (well above the initial purchase) AND paying those rebates to the older members with newer member money. He has never addressed those issues, and those issues are what make ASD and AVG illegal (along with many other scams). He also seems to miss that if you buy a Ford or a Chevy, even in these hard times, they will not give you a rebate in an amount anywhere approaching more than the purchase price……
CORRECTION: Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble, but 125% was not the cap. Andy was providing 150% matching bonuses at the last two rally’s.
But I do love the lame attempt to try and equate what Andy was doing with P&G, Ford, and Chevy. I’ll be sure to run out and buy a new Ford or Chevy, or heck even both if they promise to pay me 25%-50% more than I paid for the car. Who wouldn’t? Even Kali from the Surf’s Up forum even admitted the business model was not sustainable, and it was a Ponzi. The only thing he still feels was wrong was the forfeiture in rem. If Kali can see it, why can’t you?
It never ceases to amaze me that people like you still refuse to accept that ASD was a Ponzi after all the information that has been provided to prove ASD is and always was a Ponzi. You were “investing” in ASD, not buying “advertising,” and what you were recieving was a “return on your investment,” not “rebates.” It is time to pull the IV from the Kook-Aid jug.
CORRECTION,
Has it not occurred to you that Andy Bowdoin himself no longer is defending the legality of ASD?
And yet here you are, defending the legality of ASD.
Every point you make is circular. No productive debate can evolve. You’re even trotting out the old saw that what ASD did was equivalent to what Procter & Gamble or other legitimate companies do.
It is an utterly dismissible argument that can’t withstand even the barest of scrutiny. And it’s also a toxic argument that leads to the inevitable consequence of people plowing money into surfs and creating a whole new group of victims.
AVG started out by trying to persuade people that what it does is the equivalent of what the NBC television network does. It is just a contemptible lie. NBC does not create its audience by paying it to watch TV, and it does not provide an illegal kickback to maintain an audience of captive viewers.
People watch NBC because NBC engages them with programming, news, sports, weather. They keep eyeballs on ads they sell by wrapping them in a programming/editorial package. They sink or swim based on the quality of that package. They submit to outside auditing of their viewership and their books.
AVG and ASD, on the other hand, create their audience by bribing individual members, and then promising or suggesting they’ll do something that is impossible: pay out more than 100 percent of revenue without dipping into new-member funds.
The surfs try to accomplish this by slowing down payout demands. They wouldn’t have to do this if they had existing, provable, external revenue streams in the tens of millions of dollars. Because they don’t have such revenue streams, they implement deceptions such as “80/20” programs, matching bonuses to keep new money coming in, absurd testimonials, bogus awards from the President of the United States, bogus ads promoting “shelter” from the FTC and SEC, “offshore” locations — the drivel is endless.
Patrick
And one more…..
The rebates may not have been guaranteed in the Terms of Service, however they were guaranteed in a material sense because of the declarations about their permanence and centrality to the ASD members, by just about all those with any authority or weight in ASD, including its President.
The courts look at materiality as well as just the words.
Or to put it another way – if ASD had been an advertising company with no compounding and no rebates (or rebates less than 100% of purchases) – who would have spent figures of 10s of thousands of dollars on their adverts at 1$ per 15 second view? 10$ maybe, for the same visibility, but 10s of thousands – NEVER. It would have been a lousy investment wouldnt it? There was insufficient new business resulting from the adverts in the rotator to merit that kind of spend!
I want my damn bridge. I want the waterfront view too. Where can I collect?
Please post this information!
As the facts about ASD and Bowdoin emerged I observed the unbelievable loyalty and devotion on the part of many ASD/Bowdoin followers. I was completely astounded by their cult-like behavior!
I was further amazed by the acceptance many of them had of Ad View Global, Biz AD Splash and Ad Gate World in the wake of ASD being nailed by the authorities. These people had facts! Reason and logic should prevail, I thought. “What is wrong with these people?â€, I asked myself.
Finally, one day it came to me.
I was in the business of selling life insurance for forty+ years before retiring. When I was a young pup in the business I experienced frustration because I would ask prospective clients what financial results they wanted to have take place in the event of their death. I’d then show them how to make it happen. That process seemed logical and rational to me. However, only about one in three prospects would buy the insurance.
In those early days I could not understand why these prospects rejected their own stated objectives and goals and failed to act on the insurance recommendation. One day I discussed this issue with a man who was my mentor. He said something that has proven to be an immensely valuable piece of wisdom that has served me well for many decades. Here’s what he said:
“You can’t reason someone out of something they weren’t reasoned into in the first place.â€
Over time I realized that what he was saying is that people frequently act based on emotion, not logic and reason. I learned that love, fear, greed, lust, pride and anger are generally far more powerful forces than mere reason and logic.
Bottom line:
Since CORRECTION! still hasn’t by now come to grips with the reality that autosurfs/manual surfs are Ponzis, he/she appears to be under the influence of whatever emotion is driving him/her. If that’s a correct assumption, no amount of additional information will change his/her view. Why? Because the fact is, you can’t reason someone out of something they weren’t reasoned into in the first place.
Interesting thought Pat, but then how do you explain the rest of us who have been able to learn and accept the truth, however much our emotions have wanted to deny it. Facts are facts and there comes a point where you cannot continue to bury your head in the sand and deny what is in front of your face.
Are some people really so weak?
Yes, completely agree. This is why religion is often used as part of the scam. I believe that those who are religious by nature, may be more willing to believe something which is presented based on emotion and feelings.
Not for everyone, but enough so that the scammers can part the greedy from their cash. You also missed out “hope” from your list.
Hi dirty_bird,
In order to qualify for the Arizona bridge with ocean frontage, you’d have to persuade the seller that you actually believed something you read on this Blog.
Price negotiations apparently begin after you meet the initial hurdle.
In general, it’s not a good idea to go too high on the initial bid for an Arizona bridge with an ocean view. In general, the sellers are eager to get rid of such properties and may be willing to accept a much lower price than your initial offer.
If I were a purchaser, I might be willing to go as high as a penny — but only if the seller agrees to split the transfer tax on the penny sale and carry the paper for the mortgage at three points below today’s prime over 30 years.
Of course, the seller also should entirely bare the cost of the pigeon-nest, bat and rodent, beehive, rebar and concrete inspections, which typically cost more than the actual structure is worth. The core problem with bridge ownership is environmental. The constituent elements can’t be placed in landfills at the end of the bridge’s useful life because of chemical leaching from concrete admixtures, so you pretty much have to rent an expensive machine to grind up the bridge and haul it to a recycling center in trucks, where it will be added to the concrete for a new bridge.
The seller should expect to bare a pricetag of about $1 million on that alone, after all the local permits are obtained, of course.
Patrick
P.S. You’ll need a certified party to verify the ocean frontage. The seller also should bare this cost: about $400.
Hi, alasycia;
You ask fair questions, and I suspect that the answers are in the differences in people’s makeups. If, for example, I’m 80% analytical and 20% emotional about something, facts WILL sway my decisions.
On the other hand, if I’m 80% emotional and 20% analytical about something, facts may have LITTLE impact. And if I’d recruited others who invested thousands of dollars they’ve now lost because of me, I might go to my grave without admitting I was wrong. Either that, or swallow my pride and make reimbursement. Ouch! That would be difficult.
Hi, Tony;
Good catch. “Hope”, and also “change”, could be added to the list, for those words helped bring us our new U.S. president. Obviously they are powerful words (or emotions?) too.
This article is interesting:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/19/scam_psychology/
I’m sure those who have followed these ponzi scams for a while will agree with some of the results. It is interesting that some of the scams used e.g. 419 scams and bogus investment scams, are often argued to be aimed at the “greedy”. But it seems that being open to persuasion is a higher risk.
Hi Pat,
Thank you for sharing these thoughts and this story.
Patrick
Great link Tony )and it has some excellent stuff about ebay as well which is very interesting for me! An excellent find)
It is interesting to see that the scammed include serious decision makers too. Makes a lot of us feel a lot better. lol
I am still in a state of puzzlement about WHY some people cannot face facts. The 80% emotional/20%analytical doesnt necessarily apply. Many of the people with integrity who were in ASD are feeling terrible about any losses that their downlines may have suffered, and about their involvement in the first place, but they dont go as far as deny facts. They might have felt bad and wanted to bury their heads in the sand, but they got over it and recognized their error.
The “cult-like” aspect of it seems to ring far more true. We are reading that people are asking us to “believe” in ASD, Andy Bowdoin or AVGA. And as business decisions are not a question of belief, but of weighing up facts and figures, it does suggest a Machiavellian power situation. they have at times reminded me of the Snake in Jungle Book who asked Mowgli to “Trust Me”.
Patrick,
I know you are not always accurate. That is a given when bias a lack of understanding is there from the start. Fair is another thing though. The jury is still out on you. If you go after the governments misstatements with similar bias then I’ll say you are fair.
As for everyone else who posted here. I know your names from other forums and your arguments just never answer the advertise versus invest question. Forget Andy Bowdoin, in any other context money is spent on advertising. Here however, it is an investment. Why?
Correction, it is an investment when AVG is now promoting a 250% match.
All I can say, is “Wow, they must really be hurting for cash!”
Correction, Here it’s an investment because you get all your advertising money back plus 25% more. Additionally you get twice that if you got in on a match.
Remember the official word from ASD at least as early as last Spring was that they DID have outside sources of income. How many times did Rayda and Fava explain it on the webinar? Every presentation it was said, how can ASD do this? Outside revenue from Ebooks, Media Player and Go Daddy. My upline’s upline even had the audacity to tell me as late as mid or late September that he called Go Daddy PERSONALLY and talked to management there and was told Andy was a silent pertner of that company!
Cathy G,
In accurate again regarding AVGA! Did you omit the A on purpose or are you just inaccurate?. Always the same inaccurate observations. The current match, which is far below 250% is for page impressions, not dollars. No mention of dollars unless you actually do something for the company. Get your facts straight before you speak please.
Mr Bowdoin says “I didn’t know it was illegal”. That is not an admission of guilt. It’s merely a statement of fact. Why say Andy said it was illegal, when he has not in public and on the record done any such thing? Maybe he does in the proffer, but no one here has seen the proffer, have they?
See, here’s the thing, you come back so quickly against ASD but not the government. What about the inaccuracies in the initial filling and subsequent motions? They leap off the pages. Why no outrage there? Please…….be fair!!!
How about this:
The guy who pitched me on ASD in June of ’08 sent me an Excel worksheet showing how wealthy I could get via the rebates being touted from ASD. Provide an email address and I’ll send you a copy.
Then there’s this presentation from Rayda Roundy, who was a major promoter of ASD. It too, focuses on the wealth-building potential of ASD. I just checked, and it’s still online.
http://74.52.216.242/users/recordings/rs85b689257fd0/Asd-rayda/
So, CORRECTION!, while most of the emphasis I saw was on the rebates and their potential to make one wealthy, you are free to call it advertising if you wish. I have no ability – or desire – to change your mind about that. However, neither my opinion nor yours matters anyway, for in the final analysis the legal system will ultimately decide the issue.
It is an investment because it does not pass the “Howie” test.
This was a case brought in 1946 by the SEC vs Howey Co.
It was argued by the Supreme Court May 2, 1946 and decided May 27, 1946.
For purposes of the Securities Act, an investment contract (undefined by the Act) means a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party, it being immaterial whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal certificates or by nominal interests in the physical assets employed in the enterprise.
The term “investment contract” is undefined by the Securities Act or by relevant legislative reports. But the term was common in many state “blue sky” laws in existence prior to the adoption of the federal statute, and, although the term was also undefined by the state laws, it had been broadly construed by state courts so as to afford the investing public a full measure of protection. Form was disregarded for substance, and emphasis was placed upon economic reality. An investment contract thus came to mean a contract or scheme for “the placing of capital or laying out of money in a way intended to secure income or profit from its employment.” State v. Gopher Tire & Rubber Co., 146 Minn. 52, 56, 177 N.W. 937, 938. This definition was uniformly applied by state courts to a variety of situations where individuals were led to invest money in a common enterprise with the expectation that they would earn a profit solely through the efforts of the promoter or of some one other than themselves.
“The term ‘security’ means any note, stock, treasury stock, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral trust certificate, pre-organization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a ‘security,’ or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.”
So Correction there you have it. You tell me, was ASD offering an investment?
I certainly think so.
As mentioned in a previous post..MANY people spent $1000’s of dollars “purchasing advertising” for VERY small companies. I put in $5000 NOT for the advertising but for the 1% per day..Lady D on the Surf’s up forum stated for all to read, she invested her childrens college fund..others refinanced their homes in order to put huge amounts of money into ASD…for advertising? EVERY ONE knows better..there were NO classes by Roda or Robert on how to promote your advertisement..ONLY how to compound and build your account!! NO ONE WOULD HAVE PUT THAT KIND OF MONEY INTO ASD WITHOUT THE PROMISED RETURN!!!
I think us “nay sayers and trolls” are actually a quite welcoming bunch once we get our point across. I ran across a few legacy posts from other forums. We would have been at logger heads at that point, you and I. They say that some ex-smokers are some of the most vehement anti-smoking critics once they stop. That happens in the online program world as well.
Welcome to the land of negativity.
ALSO, on the ‘training’ calls where members were instructed how to build their ‘ad packages’ people were blatantly told if they had NO website, ASD would give them one in order to make the whole thing legal..GO FIGURE!
There’s a t-shirt in here somewhere. How about “I believe Patrick Pretty, where’s my bridge?” or something clever. We can all wear them to Barb’s sentencing.
I can sell the bridge for scrap….and pay with Ad Packs or whatever they call their currency. The droppings will be the incentive bonus in program in a program I am proposing. The ocean will be there as soon as the ice caps melt so I won’t have to wait long.
Patrick,
I knew this would happen. Smug, inaccurate, tired old responses, by the same old know-it-alls who say the same about me! It is so unnecessary. All these arguments have been pleaded on the forums. I asked for was fair and accurate reporting from you Patrick. Please treat the government with the same ferver and disgust that you treat ASD and Mr Bowdoin. They deserve fair and equal treatment don’t they? Can you do that?
Correction you are asking people to be fair and acknowledge that the government did things wrong as well. I agree with you that the Civil Forfeiture laws in this country are really bad law and many innocent people are harmed by them. That the Government may have used them to stop a real crime this time does not make it good law. Whenever American’s lose their Constitutional freedoms it chips at the very foundation of our country.
However, in this case the evidence is so overwhelmingly against ASD, that one is compelled to acknowldege that the government was right even if they used bad law to achieve it. If Andy could have proven anything he would have…he bailed. Usually for me the end does not justify the means especially regarding ethics, but complaining that the law that helped stop a huge fraud which has already brought such harm to people is unproductive…this is not the place to fight the forfeiture laws.
IF Andy had any chance of winning because the government was mishandling the case I am sure his high powered lawyers would have brought it up.
What’s wrong with admitting you have a bias in journalism? I find it is preferrable to know the writers bias. Everyone has one. FOX says fair and balanced but their hosts admit they are conservative leaning, The major networks however claim to be unbiased and they are all quite left leaning. IMO There is nothing wrong with being bias one way or another, just be real about it.
how’s hope and change working out for everyone? Pat Dunn that is a great point about the emotional use of those words in the last election.
April,
Is the case officially over? Did I miss something? I’m not claiming victory or a special knowledge of the truth like some others here. I just want Patrick to go after the governmet with the same zeal that he goes after ASD and others. This series of comments started because he was in effect banned fom the pro ASD site. He seemed outraged by that turn of events. That surprised me given his obvious bias and inaccuracies. All I ask is fair and accurate reporting. It is called “Breaking News”, not “Breaking Opinion”, isn’t it?
We will have an unprecedented 250% match during the pre-launch starting today at 6pm EST Tuesday, May 19th and ending Friday, May 22nd at 6pm EST. Sponsors will receive a 200% match.
REMEMBER: Make your purchases during the Pre Launch on the existing site. Starting Saturday, May 23rd at 4pm EST your purchases will be made on the new site.
Correction, just took that off the AVG A site. Guess it states that there is a BIG match going on. Haven’t you been there for awhile?
Mr. Bowdoin? He doesn’t deserve to be called Mister.
So Correction, tell me where my response was smug or inaccurate.
I do agree with April that our government has a lot of hidden skeletons and I do not hold them in high regard. That being said it does not one a license to skirt the law which is what I think Andy did. And to be fair, only the final decision of the court matters here, not my or your opinion.
Cathy G,
I just heard about it on a private call. I think it is too much and not necessary, but I guess they want to launch the new site this weekend and get everyone excited about the new revenue streams they have lined up. I apologize for calling you on it. I admit it here and now. I was wrong about the 250% match and you were right. Fair and accurate is really quite painless when that is your only agenda. Thank you for the informaton.
Joe,
I agree and have for all these months that nothing we say matters. Why can’t there be more people like us Joe? As for smug and inaccurate, I may have lumped you into the wrong group. Tell me, is payment for services rendered (work) covered under the laws your referenced? I’m not being smart, just curious. Thank you.
Anonymous,
Everyone deserves respect in a civil nation of laws. Again, I say everyone, including Mr Bowdoin.
CORRECTION!,
CORRECTION: Let me tell you what is offensive about the Surf’s Up forum deleting all reference to any post containing any information coming from Patrick’s blog.
This notion that Professor Patrick is this saint and has to be protected at all costs on the Surf’s Up forum because he was pro-ASD is laughable. He got the title “professor” because he rented a classroom on an University campus to solicit people for his Amway business. So much for his being a “professor.” The fact that he sells “fake degrees” should be worth knowing don’t you think?
He also claimed he was this Tax Specialist, and yet he had his business shut down by the Missouri authorities for failing to file his annual report with the Missouri Department of Corporations in 2005. He continued to practice without being a licensed and registered company authorized to do business in Missouri.
He posted legal interpretations on the Surf’s Up forum, and then challenged others to debate it. When someone did debate him, he didn’t even respond, but everyone came out of the woodwork to call the person who “dared” challenge him all kind of names, demanded to know their “agenda,” and what their qualifications were to dare challenge “professor” patrick. Not one even bothered to challenge this person’s information that was posted; and which was backed up with cold hard facts. Can’t say I am surprised since there wasn’t anything to challenge because the information was true. So all they could do was name-calling and ridicule.
Others were giving tax advice on the forum, and yet the advice “professor” patrick was providing was totally incorrect. If I were a client of his, I would be shaking in my boots he was the one who gave me tax advice right now. But I digress.
This censorship is the crux of the outrage because it is this censorship that is wrong. While many of us do not agree with your view of ASD, you are not censored for posting here. None of this discussion you are critical of would see the light of day over there, and you know it.
When Andy is convicted and in prison, you will still believe that ASD was legal. I have no doubt you will ever believe anything but it was legal. That is your choice. But if you think ASD was so legal, all you have to do is start your own “advertising company” and prove us all wrong. Of course don’t be surprised when you get shut down for running a Ponzi.
The major issue that made ASD a Ponzi was THERE WAS NO OUTSIDE INCOME no matter what Andy said. I have the marketing material that was sent out by ASD, and it showed logo’s of all these companies, which were made to make people think they were corporate advertisers with ASD providing outside income streams: Google, Kodak, Pepsi, Tilly’s, Callaway Golf, Macy’s, Starbucks, Quizno’s Subs, NBC, USAToday, Discovery Channel, Gamefly, American Airlines, FreeCreditReport.com, Dish Network, Farmer’s Insurance, Toshiba, priceline.com, Fandango, Rhapsody, StubHub, and e-health.
But please tell me just what ‘sins’ the government committed you feel have not been reported.
If you think that everything is legal and legit with AVGA, why would you ever think that 250% is too much and not necessary? When I was still delusional, I would have been doing cartwheels about now.
CORRECTION!,
I must say you take a very interesting approach in these discussions. You aren’t exactly defending the ASD/AVGA Ponzi, at least in terms of addressing with any evidence the key elements that make ASD illegal in the government’s eyes. You instead rely on the accurate information that the absolute, final word is not yet in on the ASD rulings.
For most logicians, or students of probability, that’s a pretty long position. I am presuming that you are a big supporter of ASD and AVGA.
I am extremely driven by data, and can even tell Pat Dunn why buying insurance can be a very bad move, and back it up with data and probability theory (Pat, no offense, but if you are interested….one should NEVER buy extended warranties, for example.). I am satisfied with my mathematical analysis of ASD, and have challenged all-comers to refute any piece of the Black Box analysis. To date, no one has even tried (and I’d LOVE for someone to refute the model — I could make millions/billions — just like if I could violate any of the other laws of physics or mathematics….see: Magic Gas Mileage additives).
I do admire your tenacity and your clinging to your version of how you see things. I respectfully request that you provide any shred of evidence that counters the ASD Ponzi allegations, as opposed to using the “it’s not been proven yet” argument. If you understand statistics, you know that it is virtually impossible to prove that any two systems are the same — all you can do is establish a probability that they are not different. The analogy with ASD is the apt — since the final verdicts are not yet rendered, ASD has not been proven in a court of law to be a Ponzi. My assessment is that it is wildly improbable that ASD will be ruled to be legal (and btw I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is.) However, if you believe what you say (and btw I am NOT convinced that you do), then again I implore you to provide any evidence on your side of the discussion. So far, you have not answered any of my direct questions, and they are really quite simple….
Show evidence of significant external revenue to support ASD rebates so as to make ASD Black Box sustainable, and/or
Show the flaws in the Black Box analysis, and/or
Show how paying old members with new member money in an unsustainable enterpirse is legal by law (ie not a Ponzi).
Please CORRECTION!, any evidence at all will go a LONG way here, and will go a long way with all rational readers (or at least me!)
If “I believed everything I was told, therefore I am not guilty” was a valid and reasonable defense in the eyes of the law the jails would be empty.
Correction,
Yes,I just don’t see how ASD they can escape the following:
“Form was disregarded for substance, and emphasis was placed upon economic reality. An investment contract thus came to mean a contract or scheme for “the placing of capital or laying out of money in a way intended to secure income or profit from its employment.â€
Entertained,
This all started with Patrick’s “Breaking News” really being about “Breaking Opinion”. I asked for fair and accurate and equal treatment of both sides as they half-truth their way to a bargained agreement. That seems inevitable due to the cost of going to a jury of ones peers and the need for the government to prevent the ASDs of the world, or at least USA, from existing. I choose to leave it at that for now.
The black box discussion is your passion, and math seems to be your focus. I choose to focus on business, and how companies use new money to pay the bills every month. Why go further? No one here chooses to listen to ASDs answers to their questions. It will all be decided eventually…and our opinions will not be counted. Thanks for being so friendly about it!
Amazing what the “Poof” will do. I should know, since I have been Poofed or banned from every Pro-ASD forum there has been, banned three times from the ASD-Biz forum, permanently banned from scam.com and admonished and somewhat “Poofed” right here on Patrick Pretty.. People just dont like the truth and God forbid one might be combative or rude..
My internet sins regarding ASD and CME are many, I admit,
Telling it just like it is, albeit sometimes the language is a bit rough, mostly for effect. Calling thieves what they are and calling out ASD winners by name…
Pointing out the inefficencies and ineptness of the DOJ and the government prosecutors handling of the ASD from DAY ONE,even traveling to Washington DC last November to meet and talk face to face with the lead prosecutor, William Cowden, then traveling to DC again in January after Andy threw in the towel, suspecting a deal had been cut, offering what I knew and all the evidence of criminal activity to the DOJ and Grand Jury, only to be turned away by the criminal side of the DOJ, basically confirming a deal was in.
We established a 100% voluntary contributor fund, called the ASDMBA, that STILL is alive and pursuing Andy and the ASD members money, only to be vilified and chastised for not accounting for each and every penny, although the accounting overview has been listed on our site for 6 months.. Could it be we dont want to identify all of our sources and cooperating individuals?
Then identifying another internet scam, Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment and MMOGULS, going after them as well, taking down the Founder and cofounder of the company, and STILL waiting for the far left wing, liberal judicial system of Arizona to act. But all the blogs and Patrick Pretty can reporton my traffic tickets and minor infractions trying to bust the thieves..
MY POINT… The internet is full of BS, unsubstaintiated comments and reports,false pictures and statement, forged affidavits and even tape and pasted “public records”… What is real on the internet??? Who really knows??
I STILL CHALLENGE this forum to pick up a phone, call me, or give me a phone number where I can call you or tell me where your office is, Ill meet you face to face, but please, if you are going to cover ASD, get all the facts, all the dirty stuff, go after what is not public knowledge, all the dirty crap that was going on before the launch od the second ASD, what went on during, and what continues to happen even after the seizure..
You have NO IDEA..
Bob Guenther
214.587.3977
No, no, Bob, on the contrary,
it’s YOU who doesn’t have a clue what’s REALLY “going on”
In fact, your rantings illustrate the wisdom of your Creator allocating you TWO ears and TWO eyes, but only ONE mouth.
This isn’t an episode of CSI or Law and Order. Victims, witnesses and casual observers are NEVER “kept in the loop” or given intimate details of how the cases/s are proceeding.
As many keen observers have pointed out, this is EXACTLY how these things play out. The only variation/s to the “norm” are in the non involvement of the SEC and the increased seriousness of the charges.
The civil action stopped the scam in its’ tracks. “Members” can’t lose any more money to the fraudster/s.
Now the prosecution can investigate at its’ leisure. Every transaction, every document, every piece of correspondence will be read, reread and analysed. WITHOUT any outside interference. Especially from loudmouthed wannabees.
You have NO CLUE what or who the prosecution has or has not investigated
It has been pointed out ad nauseum, based on previous cases, that it could, and probably will, take upwards of 2 years before the prosecution makes any sort of significant “move” against the fraudster/s. Given the vagaries of the judicial process, it is not unreasonable to assume a 4 or 5 year time frame before finalization.
Not just “opinion,” Bob, a historically based assessment.
PS: if you’re trying to ingratiate yourself with the DoJ and/or prosecutors, it’s probably not a good idea to use invectives such as: “inefficencies and ineptness(sic) of the DOJ” or describing the Arizona judiciary as “far left wing, liberal”
PSS: It’s a giant assumption on your part that being “turned away” equates somehow to: “basically confirming a deal was in” What makes you think your “evidence” was sufficiently important to place it ahead of the thousands of pieces of similar evidence the prosecutors received and continue to receive ?? As previously pointed out, protocol demands that witnesses, informants and, indeed, victims should NEVER be apprised fully as to the exact “state of play” Rest assured, you’re only one of thousands of concerned citizens who made contact with the authorities. Both before AND after the civil action/s.
PSSS: Further, your habit of “shooting off your mouth” on internet forums is highly unlikely to get you on the “inside” of any legal activities. In fact, one could surmise your forum activities and the stench surrounding the ASDBMA saga have your file permanently marked: “Persona Non Grata”
LittleRoundman, I always have to laugh when I try to respond seriously to someone who refers to himself as ” Littleroundman”..
Why do you people use these strange and hidden names?? Why not just use your real name?? That being said, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about…
What exactly do you think a ” Proffer Offer” is?
Two years, two years to research ASD/Andy, are you a Government employee?? How long did it take to indict Madoff???
Bob,
You got banned from other sites for making what many considered to be threats and other such nasty behavior.
Since you are the “defacto” head of ASDMBA, there is one thing under your control. We are still waiting for answers to several questions even though your paying members have been asking for months.
1. How is ASDMBA registered? Is it a legal trust? Is a 501c3? How is it registered?
2. When can members expect to see the ASDMBA audited books? “Screw you and sue me” is not a substitute.
3. What did members get for their 130k besides sending you and Larry to DC for a few days? Why was no paperwork filed? The “trolls” told people from day one that nothing would or could be done….for free.
You still like to change the subject and do the dancing banana “shiny object” song and dance routine. What people want is for you to answer a few basic questions just like they want Andy to tell them how he could promise to pay them 125% with no outside income.
When Andy took in the first dollar he incurred a liability of $1.25 (or $1.50, if you go all the way back). As soon as he paid out to any participant money that didn’t come from either outside revenue (of which there was little or none) or initial and/or ongoing capitalization, he broke the law. Them’s the facts, kids. When you use the contributions of new participants to pay older participants, you have met the legal requirements of operating a ponzi scheme, and any way you spin it, it’s just lies to keep the suckers in line.
And Bob, jeesh, have you not anyone who cares enough for your well being to duct tape you to a chair, lock you in a closet and cut off your internet connections? I suspect you’re so crooked you have to screw your pants on in the morning. Now listen very carefully, cause this is good advice, you are a laughing stock among anyone who as you put it, really knows what’s going on. You have less standing with the people who are important in this than a bum on the street, cause at least the bum doesn’t rant on the internet about how important he is. You’re not being “vilified and chastised for not accounting for each and every penny” but a few of us are curious about the other $130K. Aside from being involved in two separate online scam cases at least, being a bankrupt who even had a judge comment that he thinks you lied in that proceeding, running a two bit hide the note scheme when your car dealers went bust, being under indictment for a few felonies that seem to involve threats of violence, being the head of an organization that is having trouble explaining what happened to over one hundred thousand dollars solicited from people, you are also perceived by most of the people I know who have heard your name as a raving lunatic. You’ll understand if I take you off my short list for the Nobel Prize in Economics this year. As much as I love your rants, purely for the entertainment they provide, I feel like I have to warn you again to STFU and try your level best to become invisible before you end up in trouble or even in prison. I also know you’ll ignore that, but I had to try.
Oh, can you explain just why you’re using a public defender? Your many statements on the matter led me to believe that you were closer to being affluent rather than a legal pauper. I’ll stop now, visions of a short loudmouth in a pink jumpsuit will have to get me through the next few hours, I guess.
Umm, Bobby,
Madoff CONFESSED BEFORE HE WAS EVEN CHARGED (via his sons)and then PLEADED GUILTY when he WAS charged.
Just minor differences to Bowdoin and ASD, I know, so they may have slipped your attention
As pointed out by DirtyBird, suspicions about the Madoff scam were reported to the SEC as early as 1999. ( http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/6971-early-suspicions-about-bernard-madoff.html )
PS: As far as your usual personal attacks, you know for certain my name is not an accurate description of my physical characteristics, how, exactly ???
PSS: Your investigative talents, or lack of thereabouts, are showing – AGAIN.
Not only am I not a government employee, I don’t even reside in your hemisphere, much less the USA.
Two eyes, two ears and ONE mouth, Bobby.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it slightly incongruous that the head of the SEC is being required to answer to the US Senate Banking Committee as to why it (the SEC) failed to detect the Madoff ponzi scheme, yet, Guenther is here using the same situation to criticise prosecutors for acting within a matter of months of being made aware of the ASD scam.
The fact that the original complaint exposes the fact the taskforce had investigators “inside” ASD as members and had details of forum and web postings pre complaint/s, only serves to reinforce how far “out of the loop” Guenther was and will remain.
Err,
Perhaps the fact that Madoff confessed BEFORE the authorities knew he was running a ponzi, then pleaded guilty at the first opportunity, might just have something to do with the different time frames.
To further discredit your argument, there are reports of complaints against Madoff related businesses as far back as 1999. Just a “slight” difference between the time it took to indict Madoff after the initial complaints and the time taken to shut down ASD after complaints were received.
I urge anyone NOT to believe anything written about the potential time involved in bringing the ASD saga to conclusion.
Instead, it would probably be of more benefit to do some basic research into similar cases over the past few years on the excellent SEC Press Releases Index web page: http://www.sec.gov/news/press.shtml or, alternatively, the FBI Breaking News listings: http://www.fbi.gov/fieldnews/breaking.htm.
Further information and likely time frames on the workings of a “receiver” in similar cases can be found on the website of the 12 DailyPro receiver here: http://tlennonfor12dailypro.com/index.html and the CEP receiver here: http://www.wfperkinsforcep.com/
These are not “opinions” Mr Guenther, these are precedents.
CORRECTION!,
Please don’t misunderstand — I am ALL about business first. My employer would not make me the way-overpaid employee I am if I were not focused on business. The math is only a tool that sheds harsh light on the underlying reality of the unsustainability of ASD.
btw, I see that you have not addressed any of the questions I posed, or for that matter, that Lynn Edgington posed. It is very easy to continue your line of reasoning and discussion if you use the standard technique of avoidance. Also, I am still not convinced you really believe in the validity of ASD/AVGA — do you?
Gregg, thanks for bitch slapping Bobbie around like a red headed step-child. He needed it. I especially like the comment about being so crooked he has to screw his pants on. And no, no one likes Bobbie enough to duct tape him to a chair. He will never shut up.
Superb post Gregg. If you are going to write the book on the ASD Story, I reckon Patrick should get the casting rights for the film. lol
Brad Pitt should play me in the film. I was thinking Dustin Hoffman for Bob, he’s short and in Rainman has proven he can play a menatally challenged character.
Naw. They are already cast on the ASD Biz forum on Scribe’s thread. You are, once again, a member there. Check it out.
<a href=”http://asd-biz.ning.com/forum/topics/boffo-box-office-coming?page=2&commentId=2406462%3AComment%3A11045&x=1#2406462Comment11045″
Ooops Can you make that link clckable please Patrick and then delete this post!
Well, if we are going to be doing casting calls, I want to play Roy Dotson, and William Cowden. Twins seperated at birth.
anonymous and CORRECTION!,
How’s about we refer to Andy Bowdoin by his his more formal honorific, as opposed to Mr.? (With ALL credit to Gregg Evans), how about:
Convicted Felon Andy Bowdoin, or
Convicted Fraud Felon Andy Bowdoin, or
2-time Convicted Fraudster Andy Bowdoin, or
Multiple Time Failed Business Owner Andy Bowdoin
Self-Admitted Ponzi Scheme Operator Andy Bowdoin
Have I missed any?????
Correct Entertained. It is difficult to afford the same respect towards a man who has already conned other people out of their hard earned money, profited from it and, on a couple of ocassions, been caught and convicted, and furthermore appears to be a compulsive liar, that that due to the average human being who works honestly for his living.
The gelastic manner in which Guenther enhances all the bad things Andy has done does little to cast any shadows over his own peccancy. What upsets him more is Andy was able to screw people out of Millions; Bobbie, not so much as that. My Dad taught us to be honest, and we listened. Guess how many times I have been arrested, let alone convicted of a Felony. –ZERO–
Which begs the question, if Bob Guenther is a convicted felony, why is he saying he has weapons, like the .45 by the front door?
remove the y on felony
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