Capitalism, Communism, Socialism: Is ‘Autosurfism’ Next? Members Say AdViewGlobal Surf Firm Considering Bailout

UPDATED 11:04 A.M. EDT (U.S.A.) Plenty of AdViewGlobal (AVG) members are quick to criticize the U.S. government and the Federal Reserve for propping up sick companies.

Under pressure from “advertising” participants, however, the autosurf firm may be on the verge of implementing its own bailout plan for rank-and-file members who are sick of “low” payout rates.

The plan appears to feature accounting tricks and a redistribution scheme of the same ilk some AVG members accuse the government of foisting on the American people. If implemented, it may go down in history as the first example of Autosurfism, an economic theory that apparently holds wealth can be created by taking away vast holdings from some members so other members with smaller stakes can enjoy higher daily payout rates from the company’s advertising rotator.

AVG members say the company is considering a plan that would reduce the maximum number of “page impressions” (ad-packs) an individual member may hold to 250,000. Some members reportedly have more than 1 million page impressions on the books. Their holdings would be reduced to 250,000 by fiat, with the excess placed off the books in a nonearning state of suspended animation for at least 30 days.

After 30 days, members said, AVG would try to place the excess holdings back on the books. It is unclear how the system will be able to sustain the excess then if it cannot sustain it now.

One promoter, with hopeful words, said AVG expected to record multimillion-dollar sales soon by offering a suite of communications services. AVG announced the new services earlier this month, about five months after the surf launched.

Smoke And Mirrors?

Capping the page-impression ceiling at 250,000 may raise serious concerns about solvency, an issue frequently associated with the autosurf trade. Liabilities typically cannot be erased simply by pretending they don’t exist or by hiding them until it is more convenient to own them, anymore than assets can be created by divining them into the system. (See Enron.)

In the autosurf trade, liabilities accrue the instant a member completes a paid-to-surf session. If a surf has thousands of members, liabilities due each surfer accrue daily. A company is insolvent if its liabilities exceed its assets or if it cannot pay liabilities as they mature.

AVG members said the company was considering a scheme by which the maturation dates of liabilities would be pushed back to 210 days. The initial maturation date, members said, was 150 days. In other words, members who expected to receive back 100 percent of their advertising expenditure, plus profit for clicking on ads in AVG’s rotator, would have to wait two more months to get their payouts — while clicking every day during the two extra months to qualify for the maximum payout.

Members said AVG may place millions of page impressions in a state of suspended animation, something that could be construed as a bogus accounting practice. One of the principal accounting tricks of the autosurf trade is to pretend liabilities don’t exist by saying “rebates (payouts) aren’t guaranteed.” This infamous line is what permits autosurfs, in effect, to wipe away liabilities by fiat or to disguise liabilities by treating them as assets.

Despite the plan, which promoters are positioning as a means by which AVG can improve the daily payout rate from its current state of near 0 percent to 1 percent, members insisted AVG has a healthy balance sheet. AVG, however, does not publish audited and certified financials and largely operates in an environment of secrecy, saying it is a “private association” headquartered in Uruguay.

Promoters have said the Uruguay location was chosen to insulate the company from agencies such as the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

Did The 200 Percent Promotions And AVG Cash Button Backfire? Members Complain About Manipulation And Abuse

AVG created conditions that enabled some members to acquire vast numbers of page impressions, in part through an almost nonstop series of 200-percent, matching-bonus promotions for prospects and sponsors. At the same time, the company provided a member-to-member cash button that reportedly was rife with abuse by promoters who “stacked” friends and family members within their organization to maximize daily earnings within individual downline groups.

The member-to-member cash button — coupled with the matching-bonus promotions — heightened concerns about wire fraud and money-laundering, but some members said their colleagues simply were taking advantage of a service AVG provided. Others disagreed, describing “stacking” as unethical.

Upon the launch of a new website earlier this month, AVG quickly did away with a whopping, 250-percent, matching-bonus program it had implemented to celebrate the website launch. Although the 250-percent program was advertised to last through June 29, AVG moved the expiration date back to June 5.

The surf removed the cash button after a member shared a strategy by which sponsors could gather payments directly from prospects, deposit them in the sponsors’ banks, send checks by overnight mail to processors in Canada and Panama or use the banks’ wire facilities to route the money to the offshore processors, and then cause the processors to wire the funds to AVG.

Under the strategy, sponsors would fund their own AVG accounts with prospects’ money, and then use the AVG system to transfer the money back to prospects’ accounts so they could quality for the 250-percent matching bonuses. The bonuses alone created astronomical liabilities.

Some members, though, described the convoluted, money-transfer process as all in a day’s work for helpful sponsors committed to the success of their downlines. Others called it wire fraud and money-laundering.

A number of AVG members have called for the company to identify members who abused the system and to claw back ill-gotten gains from them. AVG, however, may encounter difficulty defining what constitutes abuse, since the company itself provided the means that made the purported abuses possible.

Moreover, some members favored by management could have benefited from the same practices other members described as abusive.

Processor Problems And New Debit Card

Meanwhile, members are reporting that AVG — which purportedly is based in Uruguay — is having trouble with SolidTrustPay, a payment processor based in Canada. At the same time, members say, AVG is recommending that members cancel current payout requests through SolidTrustPay and route the requests through StrictPay, a payment processor based in Panama.

AVG also is pushing a debit card, which members say costs $30 and one day is envisioned as the preferred payout method. The card currently can be used to pay AVG, but cannot be used for cash-outs.

The card comes with this fee structure:

  • Monthly fee: $7.95
  • ATM fee: $2.00
  • International ATM fee: $5.00
  • International inquiry/decline fee: $1.50
  • ATM declined fee: $1.50
  • ATM inquiry: $1.50
  • Point-of-sale purchase fee: $1.50
  • Point-of-sale purchased declined fee: $1.50
  • Pinless transaction: Free
  • ACH inbound to card fee: $7.00
  • U.S. wire inbound to card fee: $10.00
  • International wire inbound to card fee: $15.00
  • Moving money from AVG account to card fee: $3.00
  • ACH outbound fee: $7.50
  • Domestic wire outbound fee: $25.00
  • International wire outbound fee: $35.00
  • Other fees may apply.

The card is known as First Debit Gold, and is issued by a company in Texas known as Secure Cash Network Inc. (SCN). In its Terms of Service, SCN says the card may not be used to purchase illegal goods or services. Many governments view the autosurf trade as an illegal enterprise.

Amounts members place on the card are stored in SCN’s computer system are are not insured by the FDIC, according to SCN’s Terms of Service. The amount members can place on the card is unclear. Some members said $10,000; others said $1,000.

Some members said AVG was selling the SCN card through PayPal. PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy expressly prohibits use of its services for pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes. It is unclear if the PayPal account used by AVG is in AVG’s name, but the advertising-rotator facet of its business frequently is associated with Ponzi schemes.

AdSurfDaily, a company with close ties to AVG, was accused by federal prosecutors last year of operating a multimillion-dollar Ponzi scheme and by state prosecutors in Florida with operating a pyramid scheme.

About the Author

39 Responses to “Capitalism, Communism, Socialism: Is ‘Autosurfism’ Next? Members Say AdViewGlobal Surf Firm Considering Bailout”

  1. Where’s Correction!! to tell Patrick that all his facts are incorrect?

    Anyone who would promote or defend this junk scam needs to be put in a straight jacket.

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  2. Sicilian: Where’s Correction!! to tell Patrick that all his facts are incorrect? Anyone who would promote or defend this junk scam needs to be put in a straight jacket.

    CORRECTION will only demand a retraction of the headline as being false, misleading and inaccurate. CORRECTION will stay away from discussing the content because to do so would have to admit AVGA is a scam. When you think with emotion and feelings instead of logic, it is hard to admit your feelings and emotions were wrong.

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  3. Hi, Patrick;

    Not sure how important this point is, but I’m confused by one of your statements.

    You said. “…In other words, members who expected to receive back 100 percent of their advertising expenditure, plus profit for clicking on ads in AVG’s rotator, would have to wait two more months to get their payouts…”

    Bottom line: My perception has been that the 210 day expiration of ad packs was designed to offset the low payouts and was to be a benefit to members, not a way to defer their receipt of their benefits.

    Details: I may be wrong, but my perception has been that setting a certain number of days of “shelf life” for the ad packs/VIPs was part of the smoke and mirrors involved with this scheme – and was designed as an attempt by AVG to avoid being treated by authorities as an investment.

    How so? Instead of saying members would receive 125% of their “advertising cost”/investment – as ASD did – they said they’d pay for 150 days. At a hypothetical 1% per day, that would produce 150% return of the amount paid by members. At the beginning that seemed like a good idea to them.

    The glitch, however, has been that payouts have been far less than 1% per day. The result was that members’ ad packs would expire before reaching a break-even point, much less make a profit. When members began expressing concern about that, AVG extended to 210 the days before ad packs expire – presumably giving members a better opportunity to make a profit.

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  4. Hi Pat,

    Pat Dunn: You said. “…In other words, members who expected to receive back 100 percent of their advertising expenditure, plus profit for clicking on ads in AVG’s rotator, would have to wait two more months to get their payouts…”

    Bottom line: My perception has been that the 210 day expiration of ad packs was designed to offset the low payouts and was to be a benefit to members, not a way to defer their receipt of their benefits.

    Details: I may be wrong, but my perception has been that setting a certain number of days of “shelf life” for the ad packs/VIPs was part of the smoke and mirrors involved with this scheme – and was designed as an attempt by AVG to avoid being treated by authorities as an investment.

    How so? Instead of saying members would receive 125% of their “advertising cost”/investment – as ASD did – they said they’d pay for 150 days. At a hypothetical 1% per day, that would produce 150% return of the amount paid by members. At the beginning that seemed like a good idea to them.

    The glitch, however, has been that payouts have been far less than 1% per day. The result was that members’ ad packs would expire before reaching a break-even point, much less make a profit. When members began expressing concern about that, AVG extended to 210 the days before ad packs expire – presumably giving members a better opportunity to make a profit.

    I won’t quibble with your shelf-life analysis here. It makes a lot of sense.

    What I will say is that extending the maturity date from 150 days to 210 days requires members to click for seven months, as opposed to the five they were expecting. It seems clear that it is a bid stem outflow while hoping to fund the delayed liabilities with theoretical “new” money.

    That seems to be one of the advantages of publishing a consumer-unfriendly Terms of Service that permits AVG to change things on the fly without notice.

    It also potentially exposes another incongruity within the AVG system. The PowerPoint presentation it released recently said the return of the initial ad spend, plus a profit of 10 percent, could be achieved in 6 months.

    So, it looks like the AVG baseline first was five months, then pushed to six months, and now seven months is under consideration.

    I’ll noodle your analysis some more; I don’t disagree with it, based on information from members.

    Regards,

    Patrick

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  5. CORRECTION:

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  6. Pat,

    One thing I’d add to my comment above is that any company inclined to move excess ad-packs off the books for 30 days — with a suggestion they’ll be placed back on the books after 30 days — also might be inclined to continue stretching the maturity dates for liabilities.

    AVG has gone from five months to six (without a commensurate rise in the daily payout rate, as your analysis implies) — and under the plan could go to seven.

    A prime risk, of course, is that seven could be stretched to eight and beyond, meaning most members would become enslaved to clicking just to gain back their initial spend. This would be particularly true, absent a rise in the daily payout rate, which is really just a paper rate.

    It all could lead to Third World wages, which is sort of what it already is.

    Patrick

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  7. CORRECTION: If AVGA has all this great outside revenue, and revenue streams constantly being brought onboard as claimed by AVGA; then why is AVGA “begging” (my word not their’s), or ‘pleading’ for people to stop requesting cash outs?

    Kind of flies in the face of a successful enterprise doesn’t it. So much for “PROFESSIONALS” running this company.

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  8. Hi again, Patrick;

    I agree; putting ad-packs on hold for any period of time (meaning not paying rebates on them until a later date) means that the amount available for CURRENT daily rebates will be divided among the fewer ad-packs remaining in the ACTIVE payout pool. This will have the effect of increasing the payout RATE for those remaining in the payout pool.

    AVG needs to have an increase in the payout rate in order to quell the unrest among the troops, regenerate enthusiasm for the scheme, and therefore potentially increase the active recruiting of new people.

    In effect, if AVG implements this idea they will be taking payouts away from the “rich” AVG members in order to redirect them to the “less rich” members. It doesn’t solve the problem AVG is having unless the recruiting increases dramatically, for when the accounts on hold are reactivated, they’re back in the same situation they are in now.

    ♦♦♦

    Having said that, again, I may be wrong, but for what it may be worth it appears to me that the extension of the shelf life to 210 days is aimed at a different issue, as discussed in my earlier post.

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  9. Hi again Pat,

    Pat Dunn: In effect, if AVG implements this idea they will be taking payouts away from the “rich” AVG members in order to redirect them to the “less rich” members.

    Yes, a redistribution scheme, which is striking, considering the proclivity of some AVG members to cite their conservative credentials and criticize the Federal Reserve and government bailouts.

    Pat Dunn: Having said that, again, I may be wrong, but for what it may be worth it appears to me that the extension of the shelf life to 210 days is aimed at a different issue, as discussed in my earlier post.

    Your thoughts are worth a lot because they accent the degree of AVG convolution.

    Yesterday people were arguing passionately for the redistribution scheme, which I view as an accounting scheme that produces a mirage of higher payout rates.

    I very much appreciate your comments, which will challenge readers to think.

    Patrick

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  10. mr Eddington,

    Let me see if I can make this clear for you obviously easily misled folks. As long as this blog continues to print the foolishness I’ve read here about AVGA, I will no longer respond to the plantive calls for…CORRECTION what do you have to say about…? Just rest assured that every blog post is full of inaccurate and premature comments made by both the admin, his readers and the idiot forum posters he referrences. AVGA will answer all of your questions in time, won’t they? I’m done with all of you…RETRACT!!!

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  11. Hi CORRECTION!,

    I feel bad that you are referring to me as an idiot, as I have tried to engage in (reasonably) civil discussions with you regarding AVG.

    Believe it or not I am wildly in favor of the proposed redistribution scheme described in this thread. Not sure if it will come to fruition or not, but the effect will be to blunt the pain of some of the later entrants, while simultaneously reducing the gains of the early Ponzi winners (first in wins you know…..). It will also speed up any possible restitution process down the line since there won’t be as much clawback action to take, if it gets that far.

    Last time we communicated I asked why AVG wouldn’t use one of the simple, 100% legal business models that I have posted (and everyone agrees are legal), that are variations on the current AVG model that most everyone thinks is illegal (including the prosecutors who shut down ASD). I have to admit I was disappointed you didn’t respond to that question, although I realize that you aren’t and AVG spokeperson (or at least that’s what you say).

    btw, what is the payout rate these days at AVG? I’d be happy to run the calculations if I could get the data……and in doing so could answer Pat and Patrick’s questions regarding the “why” on the proposed extension to 210 days (although I think I know why).

    CORRECTION!: mr Eddington,Let me see if I can make this clear for you obviously easily misled folks. As long as this blog continues to print the foolishness I’ve read here about AVGA, I will no longer respond to the plantive calls for…CORRECTION what do you have to say about…? Just rest assured that every blog post is full of inaccurate and premature comments made by both the admin, his readers and the idiot forum posters he referrences. AVGA will answer all of your questions in time, won’t they? I’m done with all of you…RETRACT!!!

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  12. My guess on the extension of 210 days is that, with the rebates at their present low level, 150 days would be insufficient to even recoup the original investments made by members and as the 150 days will be coming up soon for many, it could cause an outcry by members. (Remember Noobing, once it tried to “go legal” and the cries of scam from certain internet marketers?)

    The possible cap of 250,000 ad packs, or whatever they are called, does sound remarkably democratic for an autosurf. However, it sounds remarkably as if AVGA is running out of money to pay out old members and insufficient new members are joining. The liabilities created by the 250% and 200% and other promotions must have increased the burden to the point of breaking. The promotions might have brought in some fresh money, but nothing on the old ASD rally scale and if they have members with 1 MILLION ad packs to pay………………..

    It is really a race to see whether AVGA collapses under its own weight now or if the authorities get there first.

    Would love to hear your theory Entertained. You’ve been right nearly all the time up to now.

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  13. Entertained: btw, what is the payout rate these days at AVG? I’d be happy to run the calculations if I could get the data……

    Entertained, at .48% per day, investor/advertisers would break even at 210 days. One member has reported that he isn’t going to break even at the current rate, so therefore AVG must be crediting less than .48% per day.

    If you start with a .48% rate and decrease the percentage in increments, say to .36%, .24% and .12%, your calculations might prove to be interesting and enlightening. By the way, some days ago, someone reported a rate of about .50% for the two weekend days combined, so the .24% figure has some basis for being considered.

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  14. Entertained,

    I did not mean you Entertained. I apologize. In fact, I will “retract the word idiot” (it is not hard to do admin) entirely. I don’t mean to insult anyone’s intelligence…except perhaps Mr Eddington…he is so off base. And, I have no desire to win any arguments. I just want the readers to get fair and accurate information. To this point they have not been served well at all. Thank you all very much.

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  15. CORRECTION!: And, I have no desire to win any arguments. I just want the readers to get fair and accurate information.

    Hey Correction!, continuously shouting “retract” and whining about non-specific inaccuracies is a waste of your time. I, for one, would be interested in a rational explanation of – and rebuttal to – what, exactly, you think is inaccuarate in this thread.

    Let me suggest a format:

    1) Item: Person “x” said ______________________.

    2) Response: That is incorrect because _____________.

    3) Documentation: The response above can be shown to be correct, and here’s the proof: __________________ (include documentation).

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  16. CORRECTION!: Entertained,I did not mean you Entertained. I apologize. In fact, I will “retract the word idiot” (it is not hard to do admin) entirely. I don’t mean to insult anyone’s intelligence…except perhaps Mr Eddington…he is so off base. And, I have no desire to win any arguments. I just want the readers to get fair and accurate information. To this point they have not been served well at all. Thank you all very much.

    CORRECTION:

    Since I am the resident idiot here, I do wish you would reply to my last comment regarding the “plea,” “begging,” people not to cash out; by educating me so I am no longer the lone idiot. Are you saying that is not happening?

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  17. Easy…I said perhaps. Is AVGA “plea begging” for no cash outs? No they are not. Only a few members who would be better off if they stayed off the forums and got on the company calls are doing that. Just be fair…please.

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  18. CORRECTION:

    Since it is, as you say, just a few on the forum saying this; then it begs the question: Why hasn’t the forum moderator just taken those posts down, or explained the posts are wrong?

    What you are asking me to believe is that the moderator, or AVGA, is allowing this to stand when it is a lie. I would think that a company would be concerned about its reputation enough to make sure these type of things didn’t happen, and if they did to correct them immediately. Let’s get real, the mods from Surf’s Up who are the mods there are doing a lousy job of monitoring the forum compared to their actions on the Surf’s Up forum. After all this is being run by “PROFESSIONALS” right?

    It is these kinds and types of inconsistencies that damage AVGA more than anything I or anyone else can say about them. What you seem to forget is that if someone said Microsoft was a scam. People would just laugh it off, or think the person saying it was just a disgruntled customer or a fired employee. They would not believe for one moment that Microsoft was a scam. But when a company that has gone to extreme measures to hide itself is called a scam, people do take notice because there is no information to dispute it except for “supporters” claiming it is legal. No company spokesperson coming out with data to repudiate the charge, and no way to contact the company officer’s because they are anonymous to all but a select few.

    It is always with the “promised” new revenue streams are coming mantra defense this is legal. Even if they do, it is too little too late for when they opened their doors, no such revenue existed; thus they were illegal day one. But please provide proof that AVGA had outside revenue when they opened their doors. Because their requesting everyone use the 80/20 rule, the extension of the time before payments end, those wanting cash outs to stop are all signs of a company imploding on itself.

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  19. Correction, you need a correction. The name is Edgington, not Eddington. Heck, it’s right up there.. ^^^^

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  20. CORRECTION!: Easy…I said perhaps. Is AVGA “plea begging” for no cash outs?No they are not. Only a few members who would be better off if they stayed off the forums and got on the company calls are doing that.Just be fair…please.

    Don’t you see, Lynn, if investors in AVG would just listen to the Company Line (as expressed on the company phone calls) rather than reading articles such as those written by Patrick and the follow-up comments that expose the truth, the pain of dealing with the truth will be somewhat delayed — at least until the insiders get all their money out.

    Patrick wrote “See Enron” in his article, and that’s as accurate a characterization as can be. The top brass at Enron blamed the media, not themselves, for their implosion. The media caused a run on the bank, which caused Enron’s house of cards to fall. Now these same top brass guys knew that bank LOANS that had to be repaid were carried on their books as INVESTMENTS in Enron made by the banks involved, not to mention all the other off-book deals, but still they took NO responsibility for the crash. AVG will go the way of all autosurfs and other crooked deals — it’s not if, it’s when.

    Keep up the good work, Patrick. You know you’re on the right track when CORRECTION says AVG investors should stop reading your reports. If this isn’t a mirror image of the fall of Enron and ASD, it will do until something else comes along.

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  21. Pat,

    I did some calculations with the assumption that the payout rate gets a member the whole 125% in exactly 150 days, no recycling, no magic sponsor bonuses, 200% matches, 250% matches, commissions, whatever, just the straight, most favorable for members version of the AVG biz model. Everyone is in for the same amount (say, $1000). If only 1 person joins on AVG Day 1, in order to make 150 consecutive days of payout at .833%, 387 additional people would have to join during that 150 day period. Of course, it gets exponentially worse after that. After one year, 11730 must join (to pay off the people who joined to pay off that first member, etc.). The statistics on those 11730 are not very rosy either……of the 11730, only 1836 will break even or make up to $250 on their $1000. The rest, 84.3% of those who join, will lose money. If the Ponzi continues beyond 1 year, the math gets even bleaker……..

    BTW, the calculations are not too hard to do in Excel…..you just use recursive techniques.

    The scenarios you point out are pretty straightforward too. .48% for 210 days = break even, .36% means you lose 25%, .24% means you lose 50%, etc.

    The declining payouts is a clear mathematical proof that the number of new members (or old members buying new ad packs) has declined below the breakeven point for everyone — surprise, surprise……if the payout rates have dropped below .833%, then everyone who puts money in now (and most of those who put money in in the last 5 months) are virtually certain to lose their money mathematically (unless a mother lode of innumerates can be uncovered and swayed by the get-rich-quick artists)

    The proposals of freezing/eliminating the ad pack balance above 250,000 and allowingthe payout to stretch over 210 days vs. 150 is clearly mathematically a last ditch effort to pull in more suckers……

    Pat Dunn:

    Entertained: btw, what is the payout rate these days at AVG? I’d be happy to run the calculations if I could get the data……

    Entertained, at .48% per day, investor/advertisers would break even at 210 days. One member has reported that he isn’t going to break even at the current rate, so therefore AVG must be crediting less than .48% per day. If you start with a .48% rate and decrease the percentage in increments, say to .36%, .24% and .12%, your calculations might prove to be interesting and enlightening. By the way, some days ago, someone reported a rate of about .50% for the two weekend days combined, so the .24% figure has some basis for being considered.

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  22. Awesome post, Entertained. I can only IMAGINE how ugly the math looks when you put in all those matching bonuses!

    Hey Correction!! Here’s a challenge for you:

    Since AVG is such a brilliant business model and such a great company, I challenge you to put both your and your parents life savings into AVG. Of course you won’t do this because if you did you know you’d be a sob story on some news station’s investigative segment.

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  23. Entertained,

    Thank you for the exceptional post.

    One thing that would be interesting to know is the number of AVG paid members, as a percentage of its advertised universe of “20,000+” members.

    In other words, how many people paid to get into the VIP (rebate) program and are still active?

    AVG’s viewership is unaudited. There are no metrics by which any advertiser can make an informed purchasing decision, and a relatively small percentage of the membership base may be responsible for shouldering the burden of the enormous matching bonuses.

    Another X factor is the amount of money that has left the AVG system never to return.

    Patrick

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  24. Hello Marci,

    Marci: it will do until something else comes along.

    As it turns out, something else has come along: Criminal charges against Sir. Allen Stanford, Antigua banking magnate.

    The Feds say Stanford gave himself $1.6 billion in loans from funds his customers contributed. As you know, Ponzi scheme operators and insiders are infamous for treating customers’ money as their own.

    “Rebates aren’t guaranteed” — and all of that jazz.

    Prosecutors also indicted a banking regulator on Antigua (accepting bribes), and a few Stanford insiders (conspiracy, money laundering, covering up, etc.).

    Regards,

    Patrick

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  25. Don,

    You gotta be kidding me. With all the misinformation and inaccurate apples and oranges and outer space math on this page, you call me out for a spelling error. That is pathetic.

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  26. Sicilian,

    My father is deceased and my mother is not in need of online advertising. Your comment is hurtful, vicious and totally uncalled for in my opinion.

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  27. Correction: Sicilian,My father is deceased and my mother is not in need of online advertising. Your comment is hurtful, vicious and totally uncalled for in my opinion.

    Yea, right, CORRECTION!. And next, you are going to tell us that you were invited to Washington, DC, by United States President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, and you were awarded the “Medal of Distinction”, at the White House, as a very special honor for your contributions to business.

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  28. Well then, I guess your parents wont be in too bad of shape when AVG collapses then!

    Ever notice how people play the “my _______ is dead” card to make people feel bad for them?

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  29. Correction – then substitute the characters in Sicilians’s suggest for YOUR LIFE SAVINGS and those of the two people who you love best who need advertising and whom you have to meet face to face for the rest of your life. AND then answer the challenge

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  30. Alaysia,

    I have not and would not suggest, encourage, or otherwise influence anyone, including myself and all of my surviving family members, to put any amount of their life savings into AVGA or anything else for that matter. It is not an investment vehicle. I just want Patrick to print accurate information. That is ths only reason I am here. I hope that clears that up for all of you.

    As for you Sicilian…the word that comes to mind is pitiful.

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  31. alasycia: Correction – then substitute the characters in Sicilians’s suggest for YOUR LIFE SAVINGS and those of the two people who you love best who need advertising and whom you have to meet face to face for the rest of your life. AND then answer the challenge

    Why should it being someone you love and have to face for the rest of your life or a complete stranger, make any difference? Is it a case of out of sight, out of mind? Are not complete strangers due the same cosideration as a family member?

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  32. Assuming everything is above board, in the modelling above, the money paid out to members is approx. the same as that taken out by the oweners, ~$5.8 Million. The “accounts payable”, that is, the expected 125% return for those who joined later (and yes I know “nothing is guaranteed”) is ~$8.9 MM. This is the best case situation for paying AVG members. The free memberships decrease the income stream for the paying members without reducing the accounts payable. The 200% bonus and sponsor bonus GREATLY increase the accounts payable. MY guess is that a LOT of the money has already left the system, never to return. The Ponzi pimps & whores & playas know all of this (although not explicitly) and get out while they can. For them the trick is to let it ride the right length of time to maximize the cashout, making sure they cover their initial investment, errr, advertising purchase.

    The low payout percent is a terminal disese for AVG. They simply cannot now crawl out of this hole…..with one escape route. Stop paying rebates or make them VERY small (regardless of the income stream from new members — since the books are unaudited anyway — just tell the members that very few people have signed up due to, say, seasonal effects. Everyone’s off to the beach during teh summer). Then, after most of the liabilities have expired in 150 days or so, start up again and recruit new sheep.

    admin: ……Another X factor is the amount of money that has left the AVG system never to return. Patrick

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  33. Sorry CORRECTION!,

    I’m overpaid in my profession for amongst other things, my accuracy with data and mathematics. There is no easy what to post my spreadsheet here, although perhaps it’s time for a guest column where I put you in your place mathematically and publish the spreadsheet in text form. You’re free to then take a shot at it, but then let’s up the stakes. You name the stakes — $10K of yours vs $10K of mine? We can put it in a 3rd party trust. Anyone else here want a piece of CORRECTION!’s action?

    As to the “outer space” math, you wouldn’t happen to be that noted AVG promoter Master Le would you? Master Le has been promoting Ponzi schemes for quite some time. He also has professed a strong believe in the NESERA theories. One of the tenets of NESERA is that we soon can expect a visit from a fleet of friendly aliens who will announce the passage of the NESERA laws that were secretly passed by Bill Clinton and keep secret by the government, awaiting the friendly aliens. The government awaits in fear, because many of our government officials are in fact from the Omega race. The Omegans are a reptilian race, and they mean to control us.

    CORRECTION!, I am not making this up. Go do your NESERA research. Your Master Le is deep in this stuff. So readers, who are you going to believe — the AVG Ponzi promoter with the outer space connection who believes in at least two separate races of dualing aliens who want to interfere in humans lives, or the person who posts supposedly “outer space math” that no one on the pro-AVG side can refute, other than to just call it “outer space math.”

    Bring the data CORRECTION!, that’s all anyone asks (and please leave the aliens at home).

    Correction: Don,You gotta be kidding me. With all the misinformation and inaccurate apples and oranges and outer space math on this page, you call me out for a spelling error. That is pathetic.

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  34. Hello Entertained,

    Entertained: here is no easy what to post my spreadsheet here, although perhaps it’s time for a guest column where I put you in your place mathematically and publish the spreadsheet in text form.

    I’d be pleased to publish another guest column from you. Your Black Box analysis of ASD was very thoughtful:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/01/03/asd-sustainability-black-box-entertained/

    Readers: If you have time, visit the link for Entertained’s Black Box analysis. You’ll find value in the column itself, and in the comments from readers that followed.

    Patrick

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  35. Correction: I just want Patrick to print accurate information. That is ths only reason I am here. I hope that clears that up for all of you.

    Hey Correction!, I reiterate my earlier post, for since you haven’t responded, it appears you may have overlooked it.

    Expectantly,

    Pat
    _____________________________________

    Hey Correction!, continuously shouting “retract” and whining about non-specific inaccuracies is a waste of your time. I, for one, would be interested in a rational explanation of – and rebuttal to – what, exactly, you think is inaccurate in this thread.

    Let me suggest a format:

    1) Item: Person “x” said ______________________.

    2) Response: That is incorrect because _____________.

    3) Documentation: The response above can be shown to be correct, and here’s the proof: __________________ (include documentation).

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  36. Correction! That is truly an appropriate handle for you. I bet when you were growing up your parents were continually correcting you,rr maybe your aren’t grown yet.At least you should have paid attention in school especially in math.If you had a box of toys and gave a box plus 25% away how many toys do you have. You don’t you would MUST borrow more from your friends.That’s the secret!You don’t get it do you. Ponzi’s don’t have a source of income!If you accept your responsibility as the box owner you have to find more toys to cover the ones you borrowed. Wow! my four year old grandson can even understand that scenario. He either has to work and pay for new ones or someone has to loan them to him so he can give out 25% more than he has.
    Just out of interest are you like Obama and never been in business or had a real job?If that is the case I can understand you being ignorant on this particular SCAM ,AVG.or maybe you just like to stir the pot up with your childhood comments.
    If you want the truth you must tell the truth.Don’t be like the millions of Germans in WWII and follow someone blindly. You may wind up where a lot of them did . Behind bars ,embarrassed by your ignorance. To follow a person without knowing the person is just plain dumb. You don’t know,really know the leadership of AVG. Get out of the dark before its too late. Take this advice from someone who does know the answers. Private i

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  37. Could CORRECTION! be …

    … none other than the infamous Andy Bowdoin, from “Ad Surf Daily” ill fame?

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  38. Martin: Could CORRECTION! be …… none other than the infamous Andy Bowdoin, from “Ad Surf Daily” ill fame?

    Nah,

    if that were the case, his nick would be “Correctional Facility”

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  39. Hi Pat,

    Pat Dunn: By the way, some days ago, someone reported a rate of about .50% for the two weekend days combined, so the .24% figure has some basis for being considered.

    As I recall, the weekend prior to the whopping, 250 percent promotion to celebrate the new website, AVG members were cheering the good news that AVG paid out higher-than-normal paper profits over the weekend.

    Except for the principal insiders, no one knows for sure if the announced payout rates even are based on a real number.

    But it’s reasonable to ask whether AVG “played” with the number just prior to the 250-percent matching program, to create the illusion that good health had been restored. People who saw an improved payout rate might be inclined to pump more money into the system or remain motivated to play the 80/20 game, which is designed to keep money in the system.

    Patrick

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