EDITORIAL: Members Turn On Each Other As 11th Hour Dawns For Andy Bowdoin And AdSurfDaily Inc.

The coming hours and days may mark the end of AdSurfDaily. Fragmentation, fractiousness and bitterness are marking ASD’s final descent into infamy.

Steve Watt of TheJoyLuckClub, for instance, is accusing the Mods at the Pro-ASD Surf’s Up forum of covering up for Andy Bowdoin and AdViewGlobal (AVG), an offshoot of ASD.

We wish we could applaud Watt’s actions. We cannot.

Steve Watt is promoting yet another surf site at TheJoyLuckClub, despite everything that has happened and despite announcing that he was out of the surf-promoting business. He also has contributed to the delay of the government’s proposed restitution program by being an early champion of Curtis Richmond’s pro se pleadings, and doesn’t seem to understand that TheJoyLuckClub’s message is at odds with itself.

At one time, Watt announced a denial by U.S. District Judge Rosemary Collyer of a Richmond pro se pleading would lead to a “Major Criminal Complaint that will be filed with the U.S. Atty. General.” Watt encouraged members to join a nonprofit organization he and other Surf’s Up members formed — ASD Members International (ASDMI) — to litigate against the government even if it was behaving legally.

One of ASDMI’s co-founders was Patrick Moriarty, currently under indictment for federal tax fraud. In 2006, Moriarty started a nonprofit for a Missouri man accused of murdering a woman in cold blood, shooting a police officer four times and shooting another man eight times.

Richmond, meanwhile, is associated with a Utah “Indian” tribe a federal judge ruled a “complete sham.” The “tribe” became infamous for becoming embroiled in vexatious litigation against public officials, and the oddities did not end there.

Some people who used a sham tribal “arbitration” panel known as the Western Arbitration Council (WAC) to do their bidding against the government were jailed for tax crimes, including Bruce Robert Travis. Among other things, Travis is the self-published author of “My Past Life As Jesus” and “The Messiah For Hire.”

Travis, associated with tax denier Royal Lamarr Hardy, now reportedly is working on a book in which he’ll describe what it’s like to be Jesus behind bars.

Dale Stevens, “chief” of the sham Utah tribe to which Richmond belonged — the Wampanoag Nation, Tribe of Grayhead, Wolf Band — was arrested for child pornography and anounced his intention to marry two underage girls.

One of the girls was 12. Stevens, 69, said he’d hoped to enter into marital bliss with her in exchange for half a cooler of “energy bars.”

Despite all the information at their disposal about entities and individuals with whom they were associating themselves on the periphery, neither Watt nor Surf’s Up divorced themselves from the circus.

Regardless, Watt now writes that he is unhappy that the Mods refused to send an email blast to encourage Surf’s Up members to cooperate in a story proposed by Mike Mason, who once worked as a television journalist in Florida and has started a Blog.

The Mods at one time sent blasts if Bowdoin or favorite sons cleared their throats. They used the forum to champion ridiculous, pro se pleadings after Bowdoin declared his paid attorneys incompetent and fired them — and even after a federal judge in a separate case had ruled that Curtis Richmond and others had engaged in racketeering and mail fraud in a bid to destroy the credit of public officials in Utah by placing enormous, fraudulent judgments against them for having the temerity actually to do their jobs.

Richmond was hailed a “hero” on Surf’s Up. Never mind that he once signed a fraudulent “award” issued by WAC against a family-services worker in Utah for $300,000.

A family-services worker who was doing the good work of protecting children.

Good grief.

And never mind that Bowdoin and Richmond’s drivel delayed for months the government’s plan to implement a restitution program for participants who certified under oath they were crime victims. Surf’s Up almost never missed a chance to rally the troops to hate the government, even if it meant dispossessed widows caught up in the scheme had to wait even longer for their chance to get some money back.

At Surf’s Up, the widows always could wait.  It’s a plain fact that some of the Mods and members started a forum to promote AVG after receiving ASD’s official endorsement just days after a key ruling went against Bowdoin in November, just weeks after Bowdoin took the 5th Amendment in his own case.

“Too honest” to testify, a Surf’s Up poster ventured. A $50,000 Lincoln was parked in Bowdoin’s driveway when the remark was made, having been purchased for cash with ASD “rally” money diverted to another Bowdoin enterprise. Meanwhile, victims of a Bowdoin securities scheme a decade ago got a check for $100.

Not to worry. If Bowdoin could not produce an audited balance sheet certifying ASD’s solvency and the courts could not see the beauty of ASD’s business plan, the widows always could make up their losses in AVG, which purportedly was headquartered in Uruguay and immune from all the meddling by the evil U.S. government.

Here is a plain fact — and it is a fact no matter what you read on Surf’s Up: ASD was catastrophically insolvent. It ignored the liabilities side of the ledger and hid behind “rebates aren’t guaranteed.”  As a practical matter, ASD had no means even to deliver all the “ads” it sold. If you joined ASD, you gave Andy Bowdoin a license to keep your money.

The government intervened to give you a shot at getting some of your money back before the Ponzi scheme collapsed. The reason the restitution program hasn’t started is because the government has been unable to perfect its title to the money because of pro se pleadings by Bowdoin and others. No restitution program can begin until the government has clear title to the proceeds seized from ASD.

AVG, for its part, announced in June that it was suspending cashouts and exercising its version of a “rebates aren’t guaranteed” clause. In effect, AVG seized the money — the exact same thing Surf’s Up railed against the government for doing last year. The AVG forum started by some of the Surf’s Up Mods and members went missing after AVG suspended cashouts.

Two of the Surf’s Up Mods announced yesterday that no email blast urging members to cooperate with Mason would be forthcoming. It first was explained that one of the Mods had been sick and that the proposal couldn’t be addressed immediately. Then it was said the Mods had to consult by phone to approve any blast. Finally, it was said that two of the Mods had communicated with Mason, but a decision had been made not to bring the matter to the attention of the full Surf’s Up membership.

In essence, the Mods explained that Mason was an unknown commodity and might slant his coverage to the government’s point of view.

For all intents and purposes, the ASD forfeiture case will end soon. It will be a clear, clean win for the public officials who prevented this contemptible Ponzi scheme from mushrooming globally and sucking wealth from 84 percent of members so 16 percent could enrich themselves.

We’d like to give Steve Watt credit for calling out the Surf’s Up Mods and regret that we cannot — and we sincerely hope that Steve will see the light.

About the Author

65 Responses to “EDITORIAL: Members Turn On Each Other As 11th Hour Dawns For Andy Bowdoin And AdSurfDaily Inc.”

  1. I thought Steve had previously posted here that he was giving up promotion of illegal enterprises….

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  2. Great Article concerning Steve Watt. Steve has a bad habit of playing both sides of the fence. The one that is winning at the moment is the one side he is on and then when it looks like the winners are going to become losers he switches sides.

    Unlike you Patrick Mr. Mason speaks before he has all the facts and although he has been able to come forth with some information that better explains what the Governments intentions are he is still along way from knowing exactly what ASD was and the crooks that were behind it.

    Andy on the other hand is singing a tune that has caught the attention of William Cowden and a deal will be signed in the coming days that will shake Surf’s up to it’s very foundations. Andy is looking out for Andy and only Andy. He has already named over 100 people that profited from this scheme and just like you we all know who they are and when they come out we will not be surprised but we will be surprised at the people we did not know about.

    The holdup to the deal has been that Andy thinks that dropping names is going to keep him out of Jail and that giving up all rights to the money, the house and everything else that he bought with other people’s money is enough….then he is not as smart as others make him out to be.

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  3. NOTE TO READERS:

    The poster known as “joe” — now attempting to post as “joe the magnificent” — in recent hours has submitted two posts that we declined to publish. Joe says a “wimp” deleted the posts, but they were never published because they were wildly off-topic from the subjects of the thread.

    We have preserved the posts. One was targeted to this thread. Another was targeted to a BizAdSplash thread.

    “joe” is not and has not been banned from this Blog. His post(s) would be published if directed at an appropriate thread.

    Patrick

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  4. Jack:

    You mention that you believe that SlickAndyB has named “over 100 people that profited from this scheme. ..”.

    Is it probable that these names will be made public?

    I’m sure hoping so.

    That will be a HUGE asset in war against these ponzi scams, showing the general public that the so called “Passive Income Experts” are nothing more than cheap scam artists, well on their way to civil and criminal charges.

    Hoping that’s the case, hope to see the names soon.

    ARWR

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  5. Patrick, what’s even more bizarre is that the initial discussion was started on another forum by our mutual friend UncleFesta while using the alias of Marcel(Yes, the French mime guy). I wonder how many people UF had to call in the States to find someone with such impressive credentials, who openly tells you of them without you even asking. Top that with investigating an event over a year old and mixing up the facts, you have a classic of UF, which I imagine he will make a video and place on YouTube.

    I have to agree with the Mods, as it is their forum. I doubt you take orders from others any more than they do. Hech, they are ven tolerating me on Surf’s Up these days. That says something!! LOL

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  6. Actually it has been quite entertaining to watch this three-ring circus being played out at Surf’s Up over Mike Mason. Or course Mike Mason had no clue as to the can of worms and Pandora’s Box he was opening when he started this; but I believe he is beginning to understand it now. I was just surprised that he did not gather his facts, then start posting his findings, rather than the way he has been doing it. I think now he is trying to put the Genie back in the bottle, but he can’t find the cork.

    The curtain is about to descend on ASD’s Act III, and after a very brief intermission, the curtain will rise for the Final ACT. You can be sure this Final ACT will be action packed, explosive, and full of surprises and revelations. So get your favorite snack, comfy chair, your favorite big drink, and fasten your seat belts for you haven’t seen nothin yet.

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  7. It seems to me from reviewing Mr. Masons’ credentials he is an excellent journalist. I for one think a man as educated and highly praised in his field knew exactly what he is getting himself into. Many Americans have forgotten that journalism is about finding facts, and reporting on those facts. I am not afraid of what he’ll find. I just want an unbiased award-winning journalist to cover this case. I am also proud of him for the fact that he came forward as Mike Mason not, Might Mouse or Perry Powerful or Jerry Juicer or Harry Handsome or Billy Beautiful or Andrew Attractive or well Patrick Pretty. Continue to bash him and try your best to discredit him, or you could just let him do his job. I mean he’s gonna find out what you have been saying all along…or will he?

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  8. This organization *is* a complete scam.

    I was an innocent single time purchaser of ads and could never really understand how everything worked “from the outside”. I got a $20 check here and there. But, was I was SHOCKED to learn, was the when the indictment came out, there was tens of millions of dollars collected by Andy Bowdoin. What also came out was that the “group” that sponsored me in the organization and self-dealt and paid themselves all types of commissions that were never passed down. I specifically asked, “why didn’t I receive these commissions?” And I was told, oh, we were in an accounting mess, and your “check” didn’t go out. Meanwhile they paid themselves. This came from Sara Mattoon (spelling) (I don’t know if that is even her real name). She basically said “ooops” I got paid, I was the person responsible for writing and the checks and sooo sorry you never got paid.
    I think this is a scam and a sham and really, this is why this crap is illegal. I hope they all rot in jail, including sara mattoon.

    Have a nice day.

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  9. J or whoever you are. Its not that Mr. Mason is not a good reporter as like you said he has the credentials to back him up. What everyone or rather some of us find disturbing is that he did very little research before he started making his posts. He had only heard one side of the story and was relying on that as being the truth and the only truth. Before one jumps in and starts making claims one needs to do their due diligence to verify the facts. Every single post that I made concerning Saint Thomas Andy Bowdoin was after I found documentation to back up what I was saying about him. Many of those who posted information concerning Saint Andy did the same thing even though many of your fellow members failed to take heed.

    I hope that he can take the heat that will befall him when the truth is printed and many of your fellow members start screaming about a conspiracy to blemish the good name of Saint Andy.

    A Random Walk Rant:

    Every name on the list that I was given is well known to many of us and I have been told that when the time comes and the arrest warrants are issued everyone will know who they are.

    I have also been informed that 15 people have applied for passports and that they have been denied and that our US State Department has been working closely with the Government of Uruguay to locate money and certain people in their country.

    The above information has been approved for distribution by our Government.

    Have a great day or night!

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  10. I am real sorry that your sponsor was not being honest with you.

    Jeff Mason: This organization *is* a complete scam.I was an innocent single time purchaser of ads and could never really understand how everything worked “from the outside”.I got a $20 check here and there.But, was I was SHOCKED to learn, was the when the indictment came out, there was tens of millions of dollars collected by Andy Bowdoin.What also came out was that the “group” that sponsored me in the organization and self-dealt and paid themselves all types of commissions that were never passed down.I specifically asked, “why didn’t I receive these commissions?”And I was told, oh, we were in an accounting mess, and your “check” didn’t go out.Meanwhile they paid themselves.This came from Sara Mattoon (spelling) (I don’t know if that is even her real name).She basically said “ooops” I got paid, I was the person responsible for writing and the checks and sooo sorry you never got paid.
    I think this is a scam and a sham and really, this is why this crap is illegal.I hope they all rot in jail, including sara mattoon.Have a nice day.

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  11. Jack Arons: J or whoever you are. Its not that Mr. Mason is not a good reporter as like you said he has the credentials to back him up. What everyone or rather some of us find disturbing is that he did very little research before he started making his posts. He had only heard one side of the story and was relying on that as being the truth and the only truth. Before one jumps in and starts making claims one needs to do their due diligence to verify the facts. Every single post that I made concerning Saint Thomas Andy Bowdoin was after I found documentation to back up what I was saying about him. Many of those who posted information concerning Saint Andy did the same thing even though many of your fellow members failed to take heed.
    I hope that he can take the heat that will befall him when the truth is printed and manyof your fellow members start screaming about a conspiracy to blemish the good name of Saint Andy.A Random Walk Rant:Every name on the list that I was given is well known to many of us and I have been told that when the time comes and the arrest warrants are issuedeveryone will know who they are.
    I have also been informed that 15 people have applied for passports and t hat they have been denied and that our US State Department has been working closely with the Government of Uruguay to locate money and certain people in their country.The above information has been approved for distribution by our Government.Have a great day or night!

    Did you get what J was saying? Let the man (Mike Mason) do his job. Give him all the information you have. Let him get to the bottom of all this. I just want to know the whole story.So if you have anything that can be backed up with documents help. I am so tired of the name calling. Where does that get us? I just want facts. Comments like “saint andy” make my stomach turn.Show me the facts that he was in the wrong and I’ll except that. Help Mike.I feel like you not giving him a chance because of what you think he should of done. What are you afraid of,the truth?

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  12. Jo-anne: Give him all the information you have. Let him get to the bottom of all this.

    I would suggest not. Mike Mason is only a journalist, and not a particularly competent one. Who knows what he may leak, what damage he may cause to any future investigations.

    Jo-anne: I just want to know the whole story.

    Then be patient.

    Jo-anne: Help Mike.

    Why? What can he do to speed up the court case? What can he do help the true victims get refunds? What can he do to prevent these ponzi scams from continuing? What can he do that anyone else can’t?

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  13. Tony H: You are exactly right. What can he possibly do or “uncover”?

    I also agree with your comment about Mr. Mason being not particularly competent. I mean for crying out loud, any intelligent person with at least a 7th grade math education can see the flaws in the math.

    Sure, it’s easy to get sucked up in all the rhetoric, concept of a new paradigm in advertising and the “right to advertise”, bla, bla, bla, but, at it’s core, ASD, AD-4U and all the rest are nothing more than simple, cheap, evil ponzis.

    If Mr. Mason can’t see that he can’t be all that bright.

    ARWR

    Tony H:

    Jo-anne: Give him all the information you have. Let him get to the bottom of all this.

    I would suggest not. Mike Mason is only a journalist, and not a particularly competent one. Who knows what he may leak, what damage he may cause to any future investigations.

    Jo-anne: I just want to know the whole story.

    Then be patient.

    Jo-anne: Help Mike.

    Why? What can he do to speed up the court case? What can he do help the true victims get refunds? What can he do to prevent these ponzi scams from continuing? What can he do that anyone else can’t?

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  14. Let me remind everyone that the reason most of us got into ASD was because of the “credentials” of Thomas Anderson Bowdoin, Jr. Or, more accurately stated, the credentials that he, himself, told us that he had. This is eerily similar to Mr. Mason, who begins his “about me” with:

    I have won the most prestigious awards in the television industry including Columbia University’s Alfred I. DuPont Award, Emmys, National Edward R. Murrow, Investigative Reporters & Editors Certificate (IRE), Associated Press, SPJ among others. I am known for landing that impossible interview and finding the smoking gun.

    About the only thing he left out was that he was a good Christian man. Andy sure rode that into the ground. What are Mike Mason’s motives, exactly?

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  15. Jo-Ann,

    I tend to agree with you — let the reporter do his “job.” In the meantime, I’ll believe Andy Bowdoin’s own court filings. After all, you only want facts. Let’s review:

    1) Bowdoin asked for a court hearing on the seizure, and then he failed to show up, essentially using a fifth amendment argument. Judge Collyer subsequently ruled that ASD had not shown it was not a Ponzi scheme.

    2) Andy Bowdoin asked the court in January to allow him to abandon his challenge of the asset seizure now and forever. Judge Collyer ruled in Andy’s favor. In other words, she allowed him to never challenge the seizure again. Of course, he subsequently did…..

    3) Andy filed pro se motions, and in one of those motions, he stated that the asset seizure should be overturned because he did not know that ASD was illegal. He stated that the government has an extraordinary obligation to make sure (in this case) trhat Andy knew that what he was doing was illegal, and he says that they did not do so. In other words, Andy is saying that ASD WAS operating illegally, but because he did not know it, he should get off of the hook.

    4) In multiple filings, Andy, Judge Collyer, and the prosecutors all agree that the assets seized WERE THE PROPERTY OF ANDY BOWDOIN. They are not the property of any of the ASD members. Period. Full Stop. The government did not “steal your money” or any other such nonsense. At the moment, Bowdoin still has title to all of the assets. You have none; never did after you wrote the check to Andy.

    5) Bowdoin just filed a motion for extension of a response, where he states he’s negotiating with prosecutors to resolve the seizure case. Don’t forget, Bowdoin has signed a proffer letter admitting that all of the government’s allegations are correct.

    OK, there are your facts, at least from Bowdoin’s point of view. Funny how those facts are not happy facts for the ASD supporters, and yet THEY ARE ANDY’S FACTS……

    Jo-anne:

    Did you get what J was saying? Let the man (Mike Mason) do his job. Give him all the information you have. Let him get to the bottom of all this. I just want to know the whole story.So if you have anything that can be backed up with documents help. I am so tired of the name calling. Where does that get us? I just want facts. Comments like “saint andy” make my stomach turn.Show me the facts that he was in the wrong and I’ll except that. Help Mike.I feel like you not giving him a chance because of what you think he should of done. What are you afraid of,the truth?

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  16. Hi Entertained,

    Entertained: Jo-Ann,I tend to agree with you — let the reporter do his “job.”In the meantime, I’ll believe Andy Bowdoin’s own court filings.After all, you only want facts.Let’s review:1)Bowdoin asked for a court hearing on the seizure, and then he failed to show up, essentially using a fifth amendment argument.Judge Collyer subsequently ruled that ASD had not shown it was not a Ponzi scheme.2)Andy Bowdoin asked the court in January to allow him to abandon his challenge of the asset seizure now and forever.Judge Collyer ruled in Andy’s favor.In other words, she allowed him to never challenge the seizure again. Of course, he subsequently did…..
    3) Andy filed pro se motions, and in one of those motions, he stated that the asset seizure should be overturned because he did not know that ASD was illegal.He stated that the government has an extraordinary obligation to make sure (in this case) trhat Andy knew that what he was doing was illegal, and he says that they did not do so. In other words, Andy is saying that ASD WAS operating illegally, but because he did not know it, he should get off of the hook.4) In multiple filings, Andy, Judge Collyer, and the prosecutors all agree that the assets seized WERE THE PROPERTY OF ANDY BOWDOIN.They are not the property of any of the ASD members.Period.Full Stop.The government did not “steal your money” or any other such nonsense.At the moment, Bowdoin still has title to all of the assets.You have none; never did after you wrote the check to Andy.5) Bowdoin just filed a motion for extension of a response, where he states he’s negotiating with prosecutors to resolve the seizure case.Don’t forget, Bowdoin has signed a proffer letter admitting that all of the government’s allegations are correct.OK, there are your facts, at least from Bowdoin’s point of view. Funny how those facts are not happy facts for the ASD supporters, and yet THEY ARE ANDY’S FACTS……

    Jo-anne:

    Did you get what J was saying? Let the man (Mike Mason) do his job. Give him all the information you have. Let him get to the bottom of all this. I just want to know the whole story.So if you have anything that can be backed up with documents help. I am so tired of the name calling. Where does that get us? I just want facts. Comments like “saint andy” make my stomach turn.Show me the facts that he was in the wrong and I’ll except that. Help Mike.I feel like you not giving him a chance because of what you think he should of done. What are you afraid of,the truth?

    Nice summary. Readers will find it helpful.

    Some readers may find value in a few additional details.

    1.) AdViewGlobal, which launched after the seizure of Andy Bowdoin’s assets and now has suspended payouts, specifically disclaimed any affiliation with ASD, posting a disclaimer on its website. This link is from a Jan. 31 story.

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/01/31/asd-adgateworld-adviewglobal-in-pictures/

    On Feb. 3, after there had been considerable coverage about the AVG graphics in ASD’s webroom, former ASD employee (and ASD witness Chuck Osmin) — then working for AVG — explained the appearance of the graphics was an “operational coincidence.”

    Osmin explained that, even though former ASD executive Gary Talbert — who filed sworn court documents in the case — was CEO of AVG, “there is no connection between ASD and AdView Global.”

    This link is from a Feb. 3 story:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/02/03/adviewglobal-says-web-reporter-got-it-all-wrong-denies-link-to-adsurfdaily-chides-thejoyluckclub/

    Of course, AVG later ran a long series of 200 percent matches for members and sponsors and collected money based on the advertised matches.

    And AVG later identified Andy Bowdoin’s stepson George Harris and George’s wife, Judy Harris, as AVG’s owners.

    Patrick

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  17. You are Amazing Patrick…

    What happened to all of those emails I sent you back in March. I told you everything that was going to happen, gave you the names of EVERY other BS auto surf that was launching with Andy and Busby’s help. I posted it all right on http://www.asdmba.com last DECEMBER. Remember you bitched openly that I was hammering you with emails.. Your in depth reporting even posted this article:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/03/26/editorial-guenther-should-step-down-from-asdmba/

    All the BS you bought into regarding ASD, all the crap you bought from the super internet slueths Jack Arons and Moriarity, all the Watts postings, all of the ASD winners and whinners, all of the ASD idiots who were dumb enough to think they could sit in front of a computer, work 10 minutes a day, and make $25,000 a month, have been feeding you BS, as well as the winners who made thousands and dont want to give it back…

    How about the thousands of good, hard working people who trusted Andy/Busby/ASD/Panda and put their savings, 401k’s, kids college funds, and even borrowed money to put is these scams??
    What have you done to HELP these peopl?

    The ASDMBA assisted it getting back over $400,000 from Busby before he tossed the towel in. We have over 2000 members, 98% of who have no complaints with our efforts or management of the funds.We held weekly conference calls for 7 months, answered thousands of phone calls and emails and assisted over 50 individuals get theri money back from their upline who swindled them out of their ASD investment money.

    Regardless of what all of these misinformed, arm chair lawyers say, most of whom didnt invest a dime in ASD or at the very most $500-$1000 dollars, there is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING that can be done until Judge Collyer rules that the Government gets the seized assets..

    She is allowing every lunatic out there to make a claim, even granting Andy more time, then when she rules, there will be no grounds for appeal, all these frivilous actions have done is delay her ruling and ALLOWED THE ASD WINNERS to spend and/or hide their gains.

    What about the PANDA MONEY??? Did you forget, the Government now legally has the seized funds, see the following:

    http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/dc/Victim_Witness_Assistance/files/July%2027,%202009%20-%20GP%20Forefeiture%20Granted.pdf

    Now, where do you see the Feds spending one dime or one moment trying to give any of that money back, hell, my fellow car dealers cant even get paid thier money for a current “Cash for Clunkers” program and these ASD people think these inept, or crooked, or self serving Government employees of King Odumbba are going to willingly just hand over $150Million dollars to a bunch of average people, 20,000 or so of which are outside of the USA.. RIGHT!!!!

    There is a way, always has been a way.. The obvious sometimes blinds you.. It takes BALLS and it takes people willing to draw a line in the sand and fight. It also takes some money, not for lawyers, but to draw the line.. It’s comimg soon, you can help..

    Are you in or do you just want to talk/publish and tell intelligent people what we already know??

    As I always say, “Tell me something I don’t know and Ill listen, otherwise you are wasting my most valuable commodity, my time”…

    I’ve stayed away from most of the ASD forums and posts for the last 6bweeks or so, but this was just too good to pass up..

    You have my number, my email and my name… If not, here you go:

    Bob Guenther
    bguenther44@cox.net
    214.587.3977

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  18. Very good Entertained and Patrick. You have summed it all up. Unfortunately it is not what the ASD Members want to hear. You can tell them over and over again that the money was not theirs after giving it to Andy and it will mean nothing. Even in the court papers which most have failed to read even though they have been posted on many other sites for download at no charge. They will only believe what comes from the mouths of those who say they know the truth but can produce no documents to back it up. Many of us that post here and on other blogs and forums always have the documents to backup what we are claiming. Even in the very beginning when we were able to disprove the claims made by Andy we produced and posted the documents. Many times the ASD promoters claimed that they were not true and were able to convince their followers not to believe it. The warning signs concerning ASD’s illegal activities were posted in many places and yet they continued to bring in new suckers for their scam.

    As we well know Andy threatened to sue everyone that told the truth about him. Well he never did. He did take his fat little buddy Robert Gardner and the head of the Chamber of Commerce from Quincy to the AG’s office to complain about my postings and we all now know what that got him.

    For such an exceptional business man he should have known that to do business in the State of Florida you have to have a business license and he had none. If you are selling a product you must pay state taxes. You must also be registered with the Florida Department of Financial Regulations if you except payments for Services. He had none.

    As to the statements made by Andy that his criminal past was sealed and Don Peterson could not get them that also was a lie since I and others had no problem getting Public information.

    The truth is this was and still is an elaborate scheme to defraud hard working people of their money.

    Now they want facts and you Patrick and Entertained have given them the facts many times over but, the fact remains they will not listen or if they do they do not believe.

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  19. Oh my Bob is back and posting on ASD-Biz concerning you patrick!

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  20. Bob Guenther,

    If you want to complain about Patrick and whine like a little school girl that no one listens to you, then do it here and not on ASD-BIZ forum. We have removed your “tape and paste” of your post from here because it is addressed to Patrick. How’s that for staying on topic??.

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  21. That’s because you all are a bunch of weak suck, no talent, ill informed assholes purporting to post and talk about anything relating to ASD, then you and the fat lady monitor it, and if you dont like things, you do exactly what i thought, you either ban someone or delete the post.

    Nothing but a bunch of morons..

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  22. Bob Guenther:
    What have you done to HELP these peopl?

    The ASDMBA assisted it getting back over $400,000 from Busby before he tossed the towel in. We have over 2000 members, 98% of who have no complaints with our efforts or management of the funds.We held weekly conference calls for 7 months, answered thousands of phone calls and emails and assisted over 50 individuals get theri money back from their upline who swindled them out of their ASD investment money.Regardless of what all of these misinformed, arm chair lawyers say, most of whom didnt invest a dime in ASD or at the very most $500-$1000 dollars, there is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING that can be done until Judge Collyer rules that the Government gets the seized assets..She is allowing every lunatic out there to make a claim, even granting Andy more time, then when she rules, there will be no grounds for appeal, all these frivilous actions have done is delay her ruling and ALLOWED THE ASD WINNERS to spend and/or hide their gains.

    Patrick has posted what actions the government has taken and Andy’s responses to their actions, if any. He has posted his sources, referencing documents when relevant. Patrick has made clear that some of his information comes from unverified sources, i.e. people making claims such as yourself.

    Patrick has been the only one who’s put together a public record over time in an organized fashion.

    Judge Collyer has given a wide berth the the pro se filings as Americans have the legal right to petition the government even if that delays the proceedings in the near term. Her other option is to dismiss them out of hand and risk reversal on appeal which does nothing to speed up the proceedings in the long term as the motions would have to be reheard at a much later date.

    1. You seem to conveniently forget that people didn’t invest with ASD, they purchased advertising as they attested to in thousand of letters to the gov when ASD was taken down. This was make abundantly clear in the (illegal) TOS they agreed to when they “advertised”.

    2. The government seized the personal funds of one Thomas Anderson Bowdoin, they did not seized the operating accounts of ASD. The gov alleges that these funds were the ill-gotten goods of a criminal operation. The gov will have to prove these allegations in court.

    3. If people “invested their 401Ks” in ASD, they did so against the TOS which stated they were purchasing advertising. If people raided their retirement accounts to buy Google advertising, would you expect the gov to retrieve the funds from Google if the advertising did not make money for the advertisers? No, you would be screaming to high heaven about the fascist government and posting semper fi all over the web.

    4. Interfering with a Federal investigation is not too bright. Bragging about it on the web is worse.

    5. Predicting the past and taking credit for it is not impressive. Neither is predicting the future of the ASD case. It follows the same script as all the other failed Ponzi’s….nothing has changed.

    6. Bernie Madoff admits he was running a Ponzi and has turned over all his records. At this point, the government is in the process of clawbacks so that it can figure out how much money is to be distributed. No one has been paid at this point and it is unlikely the victims will get money back in the near future. The same is true of ASD. The gov will have to ascertain what assets are available, distinguish the winners from the losers and decide who’s guilty of promoting, which is a criminal offense.

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  23. Why is everyone so mad that that Mason is asking questions? He is simply asking those involved to answer some questions, and show cause for their actions. A reporter gets one side of the story, and then goes to the other party to get the their side of the story. Mason is simply reporting the claims of the ASD members, and explaining what actions he is taking to give the AG, and Judge Collier the opportunity to tell their side of the story. I have asked this question before on this site to no avail, but I will attempt to get an answer again: In early 2008 (around March I believe) The federal government did a full audit, and investigation. It deemed that the ASD business plan/method was legitimate, and gave ASD the go ahead to continue business. At this time ASD did not have tens of millions of dollars,but it was growing fast. Then in August of 2008, ASD had reached in excess of 90 million dollars. Even though ASD was using the same business plan as it had in March the same one approved by our Government, the seizure took place. Mason has not accused anyone of anything. He has not said that what The ASD members told him is true. He is taking their claims, that the AG has not shown cause for the seizure for example, and asking them to show cause. Again, that is what a reporter does, is it not?

    Jack Arons: J or whoever you are. Its not that Mr. Mason is not a good reporter as like you said he has the credentials to back him up. What everyone or rather some of us find disturbing is that he did very little research before he started making his posts. He had only heard one side of the story and was relying on that as being the truth and the only truth. Before one jumps in and starts making claims one needs to do their due diligence to verify the facts. Every single post that I made concerning Saint Thomas Andy Bowdoin was after I found documentation to back up what I was saying about him. Many of those who posted information concerning Saint Andy did the same thing even though many of your fellow members failed to take heed.
    I hope that he can take the heat that will befall him when the truth is printed and manyof your fellow members start screaming about a conspiracy to blemish the good name of Saint Andy.A Random Walk Rant:Every name on the list that I was given is well known to many of us and I have been told that when the time comes and the arrest warrants are issuedeveryone will know who they are.
    I have also been informed that 15 people have applied for passports and that they have been denied and that our US State Department has been working closely with the Government of Uruguay to locate money and certain people in their country.The above information has been approved for distribution by our Government.Have a great day or night!

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  24. Bob Guenther: That’s because you all are a bunch of weak suck, no talent, ill informed assholes purporting to post and talk about anything relating to ASD, then you and the fat lady monitor it, and if you dont like things, you do exactly what i thought, you either ban someone or delete the post. Nothing but a bunch of morons..

    Even if all your assertions are true, we didn’t take 130k from the victims of ASD and spend it our ourselves and tell people to piss off or sue us if they did not like the “accounting of expenses” posted.

    We also aren’t convicted felons, haven’t been sanctioned for “a pattern of deception” in a bankruptcy case and aren’t currently on trial in Arizona for “multiple instances” of harassment.

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  25. Foul language and insults are the hallmarks of a weak mind and a lack of intelligence.

    If you can’t speak intelligently with cogent arguments and thought processes why waster our time with insulting drivel.

    ARWR

    Bob Guenther: That’s because you all are a bunch of weak suck, no talent, ill informed assholes purporting to post and talk about anything relating to ASD, then you and the fat lady monitor it, and if you dont like things, you do exactly what i thought, you either ban someone or delete the post. Nothing but a bunch of morons..

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  26. J: Why is everyone so mad that that Mason is asking questions?

    Nobody is mad that Mason is asking questions. People who have spent many hours following the case are a bit surprised that an “award winning investigative journalist” managed to make three rather large factual errors in the first sentence of his first post.

    As it stands, his subsequent posts seem to follow the Steve Watt “line of reasoning” that ASD was a legit program. He has yet to reference court documents or familiarize himself with the auto surfing universe. He needs to do a least some junior high school level research before he posts if he wants to be taken seriously. Regurgitating the government’s position or that of ASD apologists does not count as journalism….unless he’s looking for the Bob Guenther Medal of Journalistic Distinction.

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  27. Mason is an incompetent journalist? What makes you say that? His emmys and numerous other awards? Journalists don’t get awarded for incompetence, last time I checked.

    Also, I for one am not looking to “speed up” the case. I don’t care if it takes years. The truth is all that matters

    Mason is now in the process of trying to find out why ASD was deemed a ponzi in the first place. His motive is not to prevent future ponzis, so what does preventing future ponzis have to do with his reporting or this situation at all?

    Finally, thank you both ASD supporters and ASD non-supporters. As I go through all these comments and replies throughout this website I find both sides guilty of grade-school insults! Your fat, no your fat well your mom’s ugly, well your dad is gay! I would like to thank you all for bringing me back (if even for a moment) to those elementary school days of playground mischief!

    Tony H:

    Jo-anne: Give him all the information you have. Let him get to the bottom of all this.

    I would suggest not. Mike Mason is only a journalist, and not a particularly competent one. Who knows what he may leak, what damage he may cause to any future investigations.

    Jo-anne: I just want to know the whole story.

    Then be patient.

    Jo-anne: Help Mike.

    Why? What can he do to speed up the court case? What can he do help the true victims get refunds? What can he do to prevent these ponzi scams from continuing? What can he do that anyone else can’t?

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  28. First of all if you google, you will see that Mr. Mason did in fact achieve that accolades he speaks of. According to your comments, awards and commendations mean nothing, am I correct? Hell, when 2012 rolls around why don’t we make you president? Never been in politics? Eh, those are just stupid “credentials” anyway! Don/Pretty’12 got my vote!!!

    You accuse ASD members of ignoring facts? Like I said you can easily find that Mr. Mason did, in fact receive all the awards and recognitions he states. Why are all of you so quick to try to discredit anyone who does not have your point of view?

    Don: Let me remind everyone that the reason most of us got into ASD was because of the “credentials” of Thomas Anderson Bowdoin, Jr.Or, more accurately stated, the credentials that he, himself, told us that he had. This is eerily similar to Mr. Mason, who begins his “about me” with:I have won the most prestigious awards in the television industry including Columbia University’s Alfred I. DuPont Award, Emmys, National Edward R. Murrow, Investigative Reporters & Editors Certificate (IRE), Associated Press, SPJ among others. I am known for landing that impossible interview and finding the smoking gun.About the only thing he left out was that he was a good Christian man. Andy sure rode that into the ground. What are Mike Mason’s motives, exactly?

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  29. J: Mason is an incompetent journalist? What makes you say that? His emmys and numerous other awards? Journalists don’t get awarded for incompetence, last time I checked.

    At this point, the only new revelation that Mason has managed to come up with is that he can’t log in to the WWSN forum which has about one prolific poster in the past few months.

    At this pace, it will take him a while.

    As suggested on his blog, he’d be much better served by reading Patrick’s past articles and reviewing the court documents, both pro and against ASD.

    Geraldo Rivera has won an Emmy. According to his page on Wikipedia, he also revealed that Elvis did not die of a heart attack but due to his addiction to meds which caused the Tennessee authorities to revoke the license of his doctor. My broker advises that past performance is not an indicator of future performance.

    As the autosurf industry is as full of spin, Mason will have to prove to me that he can distinguish fact from allegations.

    Quoting Steve Watt and posting that he can’t log into WWSN isn’t very impressive but I will keep an open mind but he really, really needs to familiarize himself with the court documents before he posts anything further.

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  30. A Random Walk Rant: Foul language and insults are the hallmarks of a weak mind and a lack of intelligence.If you can’t speak intelligently with cogent arguments and thought processes why waster our time with insulting drivel.ARWR

    Bob Guenther: That’s because you all are a bunch of weak suck, no talent, ill informed assholes purporting to post and talk about anything relating to ASD, then you and the fat lady monitor it, and if you dont like things, you do exactly what i thought, you either ban someone or delete the post. Nothing but a bunch of morons..

    AWRW, you sure are asking a lot of out little Bobbie. He knows the future, as he keeps reminding us what he saw about to happen in both ASD and his felony court cases in Arizona. He wants to be the receiver so badly. How he must relish being the only well informed a-hole here!!

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  31. J: First of all if you google, you will see that Mr. Mason did in fact achieve that accolades he speaks of.

    Why don’t we just cut to the chase.

    Here’s Mr. Mason’s LinkedIn page with his resume.

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mike-mason/5/116/11

    From 1997 to 2004, he was a journalist.

    Since 2005, he’s been in Real Estate.

    http://www.mikemason.biz/Default.aspx?Refresh=0&page=0

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  32. How does anyone know that the individual who SAYS he is Mike Mason, a respected journalist, is actually that guy? Did a reputable person call him at a published phone number and speak with him about his postings? Couldn’t I claim to be Angelina Joile? I could find all sorts of personal information about her that would “prove” I was telling the truth, right? Maybe Brad Pitt would back me up in another post…… Or am I missing something?

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  33. Hi J,

    Your statement below is the first time I have seen this (although others might have). Three questions — 1) Can you provide any supporting documentation? 2) Why did the government want to audit ASD in the first place? 3) Why haven’t any of the parties involved in the court proceedings on ASD’s side ever cited this government audit? Not Andy, not his attorneys, not any of the pro se filers, etc. Seems like a tremendous oversight on the part of the defendants; an oversight that if true and if brought to the attention of the judge, would likely get the judge to rule in Andy’s favor. Thanks for the answers!

    PS: I agree, let Mason do his investigations. Hopefully he’ll read up on the math of autosurfs (see: Black Box Model of ASD, Recursive Modelling of AVG for instance) and hopefully he’ll read all of the court documents (I have, have you? If not, interesting reading….)

    J: ……. I have asked this question before on this site to no avail, but I will attempt to get an answer again: In early 2008 (around March I believe) The federal government did a full audit, and investigation. It deemed that the ASD business plan/method was legitimate, and gave ASD the go ahead to continue business. At this time ASD did not have tens of millions of dollars,but it was growing fast. Then in August of 2008, ASD had reached in excess of 90 million dollars. Even though ASD was using the same business plan as it had in March the same one approved by our Government, the seizure took place.

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  34. J:……. I have asked this question before on this site to no avail, but I will attempt to get an answer again: In early 2008 (around March I believe) The federal government did a full audit, and investigation.

    J, The Feds did a full audit? What agency? Where is the proof that this took place?

    With Gratitude

    Big Joe

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  35. J: There is absolutely no proof that the government (state or federal) did an audit of ASD and found it to be legitimate. This is just another story, just like Andy being this astute, visionary, humanitarian, well-respected, Christian businessman. None of Andy’s credentials were true, and neither is this story.

    I would venture to say that every scam always comes up with they have been audited and found legitimate by some government agency. Of course the government agency, nor its location are ever given, just like in this story. If ASD had invited the government in, not matter whether state or federal, to do an audit, ASD would have been closed down then, not August of 08.

    What part of all that Entertained posted of the facts as we know them now do you not agree are facts? The truth is these are the facts, and what I don’t get is why people who were in ASD keep saying they WANT THEIR MONEY BACK. It is not YOUR MONEY, it is ANDY’S. Gee people, wake up. It has only been ruled on by a federal judge and admitted to by Andy himself. Why you still don’t get it is beyond comprehension. Hopefully you get it now.

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  36. dirty_bird wrote,

    “As it stands, his subsequent posts seem to follow the Steve Watt “line of reasoning” that ASD was a legit program.”

    I have no idea if ASD “WAS” legit, or “IS” legit. I really son’t care one way or the other. What I do care about is informing ASD members of current news, and not hiding it form them. Period.

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  37. Steve, so, what exactly is being hidden? Is your perception that if you are not aware of something that someone must be actively hiding it from you? The case is ongoing; no one is saying anything. Deal with it. Wait until August 28th like the rest of us, to see if Andy get’s a second chance to not attend another evidence hearing, like the last one. I doubt Judge Collyer will allow the motion, but one never knows.

    But for someone who doesn’t really care one way or the other, you sure have been raising a lot of noise over it lately.

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  38. Marci: How does anyone know that the individual who SAYS he is Mike Mason, a respected journalist, is actually that guy? Did a reputable person call him at a published phone number and speak with him about his postings? Couldn’t I claim to be Angelina Joile?I could find all sorts of personal information about her that would “prove” I was telling the truth, right?Maybe Brad Pitt would back me up in another post……Or am I missing something?

    Ang, I told you to stop running around the net pretending to be one of the little people.

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  39. J,

    J: In early 2008 (around March I believe) The federal government did a full audit, and investigation. It deemed that the ASD business plan/method was legitimate, and gave ASD the go ahead to continue business.

    You just described potentially exculpatory evidence that six professional attorneys who have performed legal work for Andy Bowdoin since last August must have missed.

    Please name the federal agency that “did a full audit, and investigation” and then “gave ASD the go ahead to continue business” in “early 2008.” There would be a substantial paper trail on this, if true.

    Respectfully, it sounds like upline GIGO to me. There is nothing in Andy Bowdoin’s court filings — professional or pro se — that suggests it is true. Any chance your upline misinformed you? Jeff Mason, in a comment above, says he was misinformed by his upline on other matters.

    You’re likely aware that upline GIGO has been an issue with ASD promoters — the Google claim, the White House claim, the Fortune 500 claim, the FDIC insurance claim and the FTC and SEC protection claims, for example:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/05/14/adsurfdaily-downline-group-known-as-oneteam-repeatedly-used-names-of-government-agencies-bank-of-america-in-advertisements-for-bowdoin-surf-firm/

    Some of the ASD promoters enjoyed lying to their downlines so much they later involved them in programs such as MegaLido (failed), Noobing (parent firm in trouble with FTC and state attorneys general) and Regenesis 2×2 (under investigation by the Secret Service and at lest four other agencies).

    There were other programs, of course.

    ASD didn’t present any evidence at the evidentiary hearing of the claims you listed. There is no such reference to anything you said — no documents, no letters, no videos, no agency names, no names of agency employees who conducted the investigation, no judicial notices — in any of the 83 entries in the August case file or the three entries in the December case file.

    ASD summoned no witnesses to substantiate your claims at the evidentiary hearing it specifically requested. ASD could have summoned the government agents/employees who conducted the investigation you described and produced all the correspondence pertaining to the probe and findings that gave ASD the “go ahead” you described.

    For the sake of discussion, though, let’s say what you related above is true, that six professional attorneys missed it, that Andy missed it in his pro se filings, that at least 10 other pro se litigants missed it — and that your upline didn’t lie to you.

    Andy signed a proffer letter acknowledging the government’s material allegations all were true. It’s hard to imagine he would do that if he had evidence that the federal government audited ASD, investigated ASD and gave ASD the go-ahead prior to the seizure.

    Perhaps Andy forgot he had such exculpatory evidence. After all, he forgot to tell a federal judge that he had $1 million in Antigua under a different name — until the prosecutors reminded him.

    Link to prosecution’s proffer claim is at bottom of story:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/04/24/prosecution-bombshell-bowdoin-signed-proffer-letter-prior-to-submitting-to-forfeiture-that-said-governments-material-allegations-were-all-true/

    J: Don/Pretty’12 got my vote!!!

    Steelerfan/Crazy Cat/Mary got my vote!!!

    Patrick

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  40. Don: Steve, so, what exactly is being hidden? Is your perception that if you are not aware of something that someone must be actively hiding it from you? The case is ongoing; no one is saying anything. Deal with it. .

    I know your very close with Barb over on the Surf’s Up baby forum, everyone knows that. You and her has the same mentality. What is being hidden is Mike Mason, but we wouldn’t want to disrupt the negotiations would we? Lets placate this matter. Yeah it’s for the ASD members own good.

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  41. The federal government did a full audit, and investigation. It deemed that the ASD business plan/method was legitimate, and gave ASD the go ahead to continue business.

    What a lot of fantasy some people have in their heads!

    And Steve,

    What I do care about is informing ASD members of current news, and not hiding it form them. Period.

    How can you be such an infernal hypocrite? It is only a few months back that you dominated a whole thread on Surfs Up asking the Mods to ban Don from posting. You used your own blog as a recruiting tool for several autosurf and cash gifting programmes. You have encouraged ASD members to join dubious “defence” schemes run by tax deniers. If anyone disagrees with you, your volatile and sometimes, vulgar and obscene, replies are anything but rational. You are now resorting to personal remarks about imagined relationships between members of various forums in order to prove your points.

    Nothing Mike Mason can do or say is going to make one iota of difference to the Government investigations into ASD, as it is “too little too late” and the civil case is reaching its end. However well he did up until 2004 as an investigative journalist, his current project lacks the necessary ingredients to be taken seriously. There is a wealth of information available, including this very easily googled blog, that he did not even look at before pressing the “publish” button, and at best, he will end up telling a slightly wider audience about yet another online scam perpetrated on innocent victims by the usual group of online praying mantises (otherwise known as professional network marketers).

    Sorry, Steve, it’s no use coming in at this late stage and getting upset with people who disagree ? Great news. But you are hardly in a position to be a hero, anymore than any other ex member who finally figured out that they had been conned by Andy Bowdoin and Co, and less so than some, as you appear to still be supporting the business model.

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  42. p.s. And you are still promoting Steve Ray Smith’s Ad-Ventures4U autosurf on your Joy Luck club site, irrespective that this follows the same business model as all the other autosurfs and has, as yet,no outside income and is unregistered anywhere.

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  43. Gee, folks, Steve Watt has arrived at the conclusion that I must work for the government, just because I don’t agree with his acquiescent opinion “du jour”. It’s sad that both he and Bob Guenther couldn’t find a fact if if bit them posteriorly. I can hardly wait for the multi-paged disquisition of proof he will provide to Mike Mason.

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  44. alasycia,

    “Sorry, Steve, it’s no use coming in at this late stage and getting upset with people who disagree ? Great news. But you are hardly in a position to be a hero, anymore than any other ex member who finally figured out that they had been conned by Andy Bowdoin and Co, and less so than some, as you appear to still be supporting the business model.”

    Okay Alasycia, your right. Hey maybe we can have a party instead and celebrate! I’m sure your quite the party girl huh? What’s your poison? I’ll pick up whatever loosens you up. We’ll have a good time girl. We can reminisce all the juicy ASD tidbits.

    You mention ex member. We are no longer members girl? When did the government close down the ASD operation? Thought they only siezed the funds but gave the computers back so Andy could operate. I’m still an ASD member.

    What’s this talk about a Hero? I’ll save that one for you. You’ll definately love the coverage on the floor. I’ll even hold the spot lights as you climb the pinnacle pole so everyone can see you.

    Have we all been conned? That rat bastard!

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  45. Steve,

    ASD might still be going, but your government has a large part of the funds paid by members and the rest is “whereabouts unknown” and almost certainly offshore (you dont get into the Zona Franca in Uruguay without a pretty good credit rating and a large bank balance). So, until Judge Collyer signs of the case and it is officially an illegal business, nd as Bowdoin & friends decided not to excerise their option to continue to provide the advertising rotar, “ex member” is not an entirely unrealistic description in practical terms.

    If it makes you feel better to speculate about posters’ personal habits, go right ahead, but it would be more interesting to hear from you on the topic of your continued promotion of the AdVentures4U scheme. It’s one thing to keep members informed, but quite another to promote a similar scheme with all the information available about ASD and autosurfs.

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  46. Alasycia,

    Lets remain on topic please…I know you have a habit of drifting off course, but I’ll keep you focused. How much money did you have in ASD alasycia? I bet you were pissed off when the site was off line huh? I can almost hear the yelling and screaming you vocalized. Id never want to cross you!

    Hell has no fury like Alasycia scorned. I bet the Devil himself will take a few steps back when you grace the stage. Good Luck

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  47. Steve Watt: dirty_bird wrote,“As it stands, his subsequent posts seem to follow the Steve Watt “line of reasoning” that ASD was a legit program.”I have no idea if ASD “WAS” legit, or “IS” legit. I really son’t care one way or the other. What I do care about is informing ASD members of current news, and not hiding it form them. Period.

    For someone who does not care “one way or another”, you sure seem paranoid. Care to elaborate?

    Immediately after posting on ASDBIZ, my account was banned by you and you banned my brother’s account as well. My posts only said people should back off a bit and give Mason a chance to get up to speed. Apparently those posts or my post here stating that Mason seemed to be parroting your “don’t care but really do want to shape the debate” position set you off. How many of these Ponzi’s are you going to promote and then take an “aw, shucks, I didn’t know it was another Ponzi” position.

    How information do you really think is posted at the ASDBIZ site which is not available in droves on other sites?

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  48. dirty_bird,

    At the very beggining of the ASD shutdown, I had no Idea if Andy was a con man or if ASD was legit. I was hoping for the best, but the worst came instead. I do not care
    if ASD “is”, “was”, “might”, “soon to be” legal are not. I could care less. I also could care less if I ever receive my 1,000 bucks back from ASD. Who gives a shit.

    What I have strived for and will strive for no matter what is the truth to be freely posted on my site and others. When I see people purposely suppressing news, it makes me sick.

    For example dirty bird, what’s your name? where are you from? Where you in ASD and if so how much did you fund with?

    I’m afraid your another one that that feels the need to hide your identity. I can’t trust people like you.

    You said, “Immediately after posting on ASDBIZ, my account was banned by you and you banned my brother’s account as well.”

    What the hell are you talking about? who’s brother? I think your confused Dirty Bird….

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  49. db,

    now you have me confused. Steve has no control whatsoever about what people post on ASD Biz. He is just a member like everyone else except the moderators there and he is not a mod. lol

    You make a good point, however, about the paranoia. It would be good to be read the answer you asked for, instead of a series of ad hominem attacks by that particular gentleman on the people who ask for explanations from him for his public actions.

    The nature of his attacks is very apt, and falls perfectly within the title of this discussion – “Members Turn on Each Other as 11th Hour Dawns for Andy Bowdoin and AdSurfDaily, Inc.” LOL (Sorry you find me so fearsome, Steve.lol Please dont confuse candour for anger)

    (By the way, AlasyCia’s reaction, when the news of the ASD raid and the subsequent details of “our leader’s” past came out was the following: I felt quite sick and angry when it was clear that we had been lied to. After that, it was far easier to interpret the actions that followed with objectivity, and to accept the real facts of the situation as it unfolded.

    There is a trick I discovered years ago for keeping on the “straight and narrow”. It ain’t religion, it ain’t what other people think, and it ain’t the money. You just have to remember that children learn by what they see in their own homes, by example, and if you dont want your own to be liars, cheats or crooks when they grow up, you can’t be one yourself. And if you want them to grow up with integrity and learn that the ends do not always justify the means, then you have to demonstrate it by your own behaviour.

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  50. Did I miss something? Someone has been attacking hominy??

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  51. Steve Watt: dirty_bird,At the very beggining of the ASD shutdown, I had no Idea if Andy was a con man or if ASD was legit. I was hoping for the best, but the worst came instead. I do not care
    if ASD “is”, “was”, “might”, “soon to be” legal are not. I could care less. I also could care less if I ever receive my 1,000 bucks back from ASD. Who gives a shit.
    What I have strived for and will strive for no matter what is the truth to be freely posted on my site and others. When I see people purposely suppressing news, it makes me sick.For example dirty bird, what’s your name? where are you from? Where you in ASD and if so how much did you fund with?
    I’m afraid your another one that that feels the need to hide your identity. I can’t trust people like you.
    You said, “Immediately after posting on ASDBIZ, my account was banned by you and you banned my brother’s account as well.”What the hell are you talking about?who’s brother? I think your confused Dirty Bird….

    Steve,

    I see that I owe you an apology on one count. I believed you were a mod on the ASDBIZ forum. Reviewing my notes, I see that I misread a point as your comments were mixed in with others. I can’t substantiate that you had our accounts banned. So in that regard, I apologize.

    As for my opinion that you seem awfully interested in something you profess not to care about, I maintain that opinion. I also maintain, as do many others, that you promote or have promoted several Ponzi’s which should be obvious at this point. One mistake, fine. More than a few, people ought to be able to read the obvious red flags rather quickly.

    As for who has the biggest balls, people are free to choose to be anonymous or use their real names. In my opinion, using a real name on the Internet is not particularly desirable. I use the same moniker across the all the boards so it should be trivial to judge my posts on merit. You and Bob can compare and argue about size, I care more about accuracy.

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  52. alasycia: db,

    now you have me confused. Steve has no control whatsoever about what people post on ASD Biz. He is just a member like everyone else except the moderators there and he is not a mod. lol

    Alasycia,

    You are correct. I had to reread my notes. Steve is not a mod on ASDBIZ as far as I can see so I can’t draw the connection, at least not directly. I have apologized on that count.

    What is interesting is that as soon as I reactivated my account and posted, I was immediately banned again. I’d forgotten that I had been banned some time ago. My posts were rather innocuous. I asked that people keep their passion in check until Mason got up to speed on ASD. POOF, there went the account.

    dB

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  53. db, are you sure you dont mean the ASD Members Forum – otherwise known as Surfs Up? Rational posters like you dont usually get banned from ASD Biz. On the other hand, one word that varies from the Party Line or a name that worries them for being NEGATIVE (like yours truly) can guarantee to get a post deleted, if not a total banning! lol

    And Steve, you have read my views on forum posters names already. If the material they publish is verifiable as fact, then that is more important than the name they use. If on the other hand they post total unverifiable horse excrement, using their real name serves no useful purpose, apart from giving readers notice to take the post’s content with a pinch of salt.

    Lets face it, the Black Box Test stands up on its own, and it doesnt matter whether the poster is called Entertained, Happy Harry or Algernon Forsythe Smith. I guess some people dont need to see their name in lights to help fight scams.

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  54. Steve,

    You strive for the truth — prove it. You refer to “trusting people” below. Perhaps you can answer for us why anyone should trust you? You have exposed yourself to be deceitful when you previously posted that you are no longer promoting these various Ponzi schemes, and now you are back doing so again. I had previously accused you of being a professional Ponzi pimp, which I recanted. However, you continue to pimp for ADV, so I guess the nom de plume still fits, although now that you know full well it’s an illegal Ponzi scheme, and you state that you don’t care that these programs are illegal, perhaps your business card should read “Steve Watt, Criminal Ponzi Pimp.” You certainly have the credentials. You don’t trust people who post under pseudonyms the truth you claim to seek? Fine, but how would you want others to view you? Should they “trust” someone who repeatedly promotes criminal enterprises? I know what I would choose. Follow the facts, regardless of who posts them. The facts are, the person posting as Steve Watt is a serial criminal scammer. There’s your truth.

    Steve Watt: dirty_bird,At the very beggining of the ASD shutdown, I had no Idea if Andy was a con man or if ASD was legit. I was hoping for the best, but the worst came instead. I do not careif ASD “is”, “was”, “might”, “soon to be” legal are not. I could care less. I also could care less if I ever receive my 1,000 bucks back from ASD. Who gives a shit. What I have strived for and will strive for no matter what is the truth to be freely posted on my site and others. When I see people purposely suppressing news, it makes me sick.For example dirty bird, what’s your name? where are you from? Where you in ASD and if so how much did you fund with? I’m afraid your another one that that feels the need to hide your identity. I can’t trust people like you. You said, “Immediately after posting on ASDBIZ, my account was banned by you and you banned my brother’s account as well.”What the hell are you talking about? who’s brother? I think your confused Dirty Bird….

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  55. alasycia: If on the other hand they post total unverifiable horse excrement, using their real name serves no useful purpose, apart from giving readers notice to take the post’s content with a pinch of salt.

    Actually, Alasycia, Messrs Guenther and Watts are providing a valuable lesson, albeit unwittingly, to “newbies” to the world of internet commerce (and fraud)

    When asked, I often make the analogy that beginning the internet experience is not unlike visiting a foreign country for the first time.

    While things on the ‘net may appear to be the same as those “back home” or “in the real world” they most certainly are not.

    Take, for example, Watts’ and Guenthers’ fixation on the use of “real” names or whereabouts as having some sort of relevance as to the legitimacy, or otherwise, of a posters’ information.

    How many times during the heyday of ASD do you recall seeing the question being asked: “if Bowdoin was a fraudster, would he be so stupid as to use his real name and address”???

    Similarly, those who have bothered to research the 12Daily Pro and CEP “autosurf” frauds will recognise that the people behind both scams used their real names and locations as “proof” of their honesty.(in the CEP case, complete with the name of the Bible College attended by the fraudsters and with 12DP, complete with photo of Charis Johnsons’ new house)

    Both Guenther and Watts make a song and dance about (apparently) using their real names and locations, as did Bowdoin, Charis Johnson and the CEP “boys” when, in reality, it was/is done to lull people into a false sense of security.

    In reality, knowing names and addresses did nothing to protect people from the fraud being carried out by ASD, 12DP or CEP scams. Nor did such knowledge protect people from Guenthers’ ASDBMA scam and Watts’ continual autosurf promotions via his JoyLuck Club.

    However, discussion of the merits (or otherwise) of using “real names” is a classic illustration of a magicians’ “misdirection” technique in action. Readers “relax” in the knowledge they “know” with whom they’re dealing as their pockets are being picked.

    And, if I might add, I’m almost certain that knowing Bowdoins’, Guenthers’ or Watts’ “real” name and location doesn’t lessen the pain of being robbed, in any way.

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  56. In fact the only reason I can see for real names to be important is if want to sue someone, or the Government wants to find you and they usually have adecuate ways of doing so, without your name and address appearing on the world wide web. lol

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  57. alasycia: db, are you sure you dont mean the ASD Members Forum – otherwise known as Surfs Up? Rational posters like you dont usually get banned from ASD Biz. On the other hand, one word that varies from the Party Line or a name that worries them for being NEGATIVE (like yours truly) can guarantee to get a post deleted, if not a total banning! lol

    Nope, it was the ASD Business Information Zone. I think Kathy had a thing about me at one time. Too many questions or something like that so I got banned. Fast forward and I registered, posted twice and was banned rather quickly. My posts just asked people to chill while Mason got up to speed, if that is his intention.

    I thought that SW was a mod and banned me since we had a bit of a dust up the other day so the timing was perfect. But I remembered wrong. That doesn’t mean emails or pm’s weren’t sent but whatever, it’s not a big deal.

    Usually, ASDBIZ is fairly open and both Jack and Bob get to trade barbs. I guess that I am not cool enough to belong to their club…

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  58. dirty_bird, no, the problem was you were mistaken as a new alias for UncleFesta, who is banned immediately, just because. It may have been your email address used. Try it now…

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  59. Oh Boy. After all the fuss about names, the only thing that remains is to misquote Gilbert and Sullivan – “A Mod’raters’ lot is not a happy one”. DB- I guess that you had better stick to posting as the Dirty Bird we know and love in future.lol

    People like UF, with their 3 new Ids per day, cause more problems for forum owners than the rest of the internet population put together. I guess it will be the subject for yet another unwatched video of his.

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  60. Don: dirty_bird,no, the problem was you were mistaken as a new alias for UncleFesta, who is banned immediately, just because. It may have been your email address used. Try it now…

    Ah, Ok. I can login now. Can I post without being banned?

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  61. alasycia: Oh Boy.After all the fuss about names, the only thing that remains is to misquote Gilbert and Sullivan -“A Mod’raters’ lot is not a happy one”.DB- I guess that you had better stick to posting as the Dirty Bird we know and love in future.lolPeople like UF, with their 3 new Ids per day, cause more problems for forum owners than the rest of the internet population put together.I guess it will be the subject for yet another unwatched video of his.

    Agreed. I was a mod on WWSN and UF took exception to one of the members using racist slurs. We filtered the offensive words but the poster just kept using similar words and I was not about to ban half the English language or spend half my time in a battle with the racist. The best I could do was condemn the posters behavior which did not placate UF. Not that I cared about UF or his opinion but racism is odious.

    I have used dirty_bird for years on the scam related forums and plan to until and unless I have a reason to dump it. In my first forum, I was using a moniker I have used since I have been online but I somehow offended the rabid anti-scammers by requesting they substantiate some allegations….and they tried to “out” me. These fools were advocating physical action against those they felt were scammers. Hence the separation from my other moniker.

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  62. And the beat goes on………..

    More “Site Problems” at AD4U.

    Those of you “die hard believers” and online ostriches get used to it.

    Ad4U is following the ponzi timeline perfectly, there will be many site outages in the future, coupled with other innovative excuses, family illnesses, lack of member faith and dedication and a few innovative things that will be forthcoming.

    Sad but true.

    ARWR

    ************************
    Tuesday, August 18th

    From Steve Smith at AD4U:

    We are sorry but we had an issue this morning with the site. THis was beyond our control, so we are working extremely hard to be completely up and running.

    So give us some time and all will be fine soon.

    http://ad-ventures4u.com thanks Steve Smith

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  63. I spotted that the site was down today. In now looks as if Steve Ray Smith may win the race with the Government and is the one who closes Ad-ventures4U down before they get there to do it themselves.

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  64. After reading Mike Mason’s latest attempt at investigative journalism, I now understand why he went into real estate. How can anyone compare Google AdSense to ASD? There is no comparison. Google never promised 100 or 200 percent matches on ad purchases for you and your sponsor. I could compare ASD to Shell Oil, but that doesn’t mean they are comparable.

    I’d also like to know what three new experts Murray found and how he presented evidence to Her Honor outside of a hearing and during negotiations he is in. Maybe I don’t understand the judicial system, but something seems out of order here.

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  65. alasycia: I spotted that the site was down today.In now looks as if Steve Ray Smith may win the race with the Government and is the one who closes Ad-ventures4U down before they get there to do it themselves.

    It was payday today so people were anxious about the payouts and had to surf so I bet traffic was a bit high today. They are solving that problem. According to Steve and another AV4U admin over at MMG, you are required to surf 10 sites per day now rather than 77. That should help with the congestion for a bit.

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