Narc That Car ‘Not A Part’ Of Secondary AMBER Alert System; National Center For Missing & Exploited Children Official Says Integrity Of AMBER Alert Name ‘Needs To Be Protected’

UPDATED 2:39 P.M. ET (U.S.A.) Narc That Car is not affiliated with the AMBER Alert Secondary Distribution Program, an official said yesterday.

Robert Hoever’s comments followed on the heels of a denial by the Justice Department that Narc That Car was affiliated with the AMBER Alert program — despite repeated claims by Narc That Car promoters that participation in Narc That Car benefited AMBER Alert.

Hoever, associate director of special projects in the Missing Children’s Division of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC), manages the Amber Alert Secondary Distribution Program for NCMEC and the Justice Department, and 120 Amber Alert coordinators throughout the United States.

“Narc that Car is not a part of the AMBER Alert Secondary Distribution Program,” Hoever said.

Given the inarguably high stakes when a child goes missing, Hoever said it was common for people and organizations to try to get involved and help — “[s]ome by pulling AMBER Alerts off the internet and posting them in various places.”

But he cautioned that brand dilution and public desensitization can occur when AMBER Alert’s famous name is commercialized.

“As you might imagine there can be accuracy issues as well as timeliness concerns,” Hoever said. “The integrity of the AMBER Alert program needs to be protected so that we do not over saturate the public, but rather send messages to targeted areas defined by the investigating agency. We do not want to desensitize the public by sending alerts that are commercialized, that do not apply to the recipients, are not completely accurate, or are not timely.”

Promoters routinely reference AMBER Alert in sales pitches for the Narc That Car multilevel-marketing program, which charges participants a $100 fee up front and a website fee of $24.95 a month to become “independent consultants.”

Narc That Car’s consultants are instructed to write down the license-plate numbers of 10 automobiles and enter the information into a database Narc That Car maintains. Participants get paid for entering information in the database, and are paid additional commissions if they recruit others into the program and minimum thresholds are met.

Clients such as major automobile manufacturers, banks, automobile-repossession companies and others are interested in purchasing information from the database for $99, according to Narc That Car.

Promoters routinely drop the names of AMBER Alert and make references to “law enforcement” in ads for the Narc That Car program, but the company does not publish a list of clients.

Google search results include references such as this: (Italics/bold added.)

This program is supported by all the major vehicle manufactures, FBI, law enforcement and financial institutions to help locate and in some cases reclaim vehicles. Just having an address does not work, people ‘hide’ their vehicles and we provide a pattern of these vehicles movements. We recently allowed the Amber Alert program access to help in their cause when there is a need to track down a vehicle quickly that might be in the National data base.”

(URL for above still current as of Feb. 4, 2010.)

Here is another claim (italics/bold added):

“This is an excellent business opportunity, very very simple, and very lucrative. It is a new business that gathers license plate numbers for various companies.

Such as:
*Major Auto Manufactures
*Private Lien Holders
* Banks
*In House Auto Dealers
*Commercial Vehicle Companies
*Missing Persons
*Law Enforcement & Government Agencies
*Amber Alert

(URL for above still current as of Feb. 4, 2010)

Meanwhile, a Google search result includes this claim (italics/bold added):

“I got my first check from Narc That Car. This is fun and easy, and I’m helping Amber Alerts!”

UPDATE 2:39 P.M. The screen shot below is a miniaturized version of a logo that appeared today on a site called “FindThatCar.org.” The logo included an appeal to “Help us,” as though it were collecting money for a charity.

About the Author

72 Responses to “Narc That Car ‘Not A Part’ Of Secondary AMBER Alert System; National Center For Missing & Exploited Children Official Says Integrity Of AMBER Alert Name ‘Needs To Be Protected’”

  1. When Narc That Car first started with their claims of being affiliated with all these different entities, it immediately reminded me of when ASD was showing logo’s of companies they claimed were doing business (advertising) with ASD that provided the outside income that made ASD legal; which was bogus. Then the ads saying ASD was FDIC insured, and not subject to the SEC rules. With all these denials of Narc That Car being associated with the Amber Alert organizations, makes you wonder how long before the FTC steps in and puts a stop to all of this?

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  2. “The Founder/CEO is William Forester. He is an Integrative Technology Guru who has worked with such companies as The FBI, TXU and Texas Title.”

    “How exciting and credible would it be for YOU – to be able to say that you are working for: Banks, Credit Unions, Police, FBI, Amber Alert and Single moms?”

    Quotes are from this site:
    jdn.myisystem.com/lc2.php

    Could someone call this guy as ask him which department of the FBI Bill Forester worked for? Inquiring minds want to know. And perhaps the Amber Alert people might also like to speak with him – Here are his numbers.

    Joe Norman
    jnorman@sssnet.com
    (330) 262-1664
    (330) 347-7800

    If people are going to make claims to persuade a reader to invest money that will financially benefit the author, shouldn’t they be required to show proof of said claims when they are using “branded” names such as FBI and Amber Alert? Especially when these claims are strictly for financial gain. And if they don’t have the proof, hold them accountable.

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  3. Quick note:

    Classified ad from Phoenix that duplicates ad referenced in story above:

    http://espanol.clasificadoslasvegas.univision.com/BizOpps/narc_that_car_/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=2528928

    Separate ad in Phoenix — apparently by a different Narc That Car promoter — now appears to have been removed, but once said, “We are backed by the better business bureau, the F.B.I., and the Amber Alert system. …”

    There also is a domain known as “FindThatCar.org” that has a picture of the Narc That Car logo on it — along with the words “Help Us.”

    So, it now seems there is a .org URL that is making an appeal for Narc That Car as though it were a nonprofit entity.

    Quick note to char:

    I visited the URL you posted above. Wow. At the moment, the promoter is comparing Narc That Car to the good works done by John Walsh and the America’s Most Wanted TV show.

    “Help us keep our kids and our streets safe!” the Narc That Car pitch says.

    “If you have watched ‘America’s Most Wanted TV show John Walsh (the host) shows a picture of a wanted criminal. He asks us to call a phone number if we see or know anything about that person.

    “What we do is very similar except we get paid.”

    Patrick

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  4. Here’s another promo:
    http://www.makemoneyinterviews.com/11/money-making/narc-that-car-information/
    It also mentions the FBI & Amber Alert:

    Is this LEGIT?

    This company is listed with the Better Business Bureau! They had to get approved in all 50 states to be able to run plates thru every DMV nationwide, to make sure plates that are put in are registered plates! The FBI is involved with the AMBER ALERT, they have free access to this database when an AMBER ALERT goes out! This company is also going to send you a 1099 at the end of the year & you are going to have to pay TAXES on the money you earn! EVERYTHING IS LEGAL ABOUT THIS COMPANY AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING! They have a service and Product!

    It also says:

    Will this actually work?

    Such automotive companies as Ford, Nissan, and Isuzu have already given their commitment to NARC. They have signed on as clients and will be there to use the database when it is ready. These companies believe in this idea. NARC has also been doing this same concept in the Dallas area for three years. NARC has decided to use Network Marketing as the best tool for building their database.

    Have Ford, Nissan and Isuzu really given any commitment to NARC? I doubt it very much. Does anyone know the email address of the press office of these companies?

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  5. Maybe when somebody said FBI they meant the old t-shirt acronym “Female Body Inspector”.

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  6. Does anyone know the email address of the press office of these companies?  

    I am certainly going to research these claims but I already know that dealers register the vehicle with the manufacturer for warranty purposes so they already have a list of owners and would not need this.
    That’s how recall notices from the manufacturers get sent to the owners of the vehicles.

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  7. It appears that the owners and promoters of this latest mlm/ponzi have sunk to a new ethical low with their claims that they are associated with Amber Alert and other honorable organizations. Their claims this time are totally immoral and shameless

    As was already commented over at scam dot com,

    If your child went missing, would you be happy to rely on a group of avid MLMers giving random and out of date info who are looking to Make Easy Money for their safety?

    (Making Easy Money was the handle used by one of the narcthatcar members posting there)

    With ASD, it was a first time incursion into the online “business” world and there were victims amongst the membership. However, anyone involving themselves in this who promotes it as a way of helping desparate parents deserves to be taken out and shot.

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  8. *MISLEADING*
    ———–
    NARC Technologies
    Management and Field Consultant positions available now.

    Area Director – with people skills, sales and marketing experience.
    Managers – with people skills to train and manage data gathering field consultants.
    Field consultants – full and part time – to gather and record data online.

    *SHAMEFUL*
    ———-
    “Client Sector #3 – Amber Alert
    NARC has integrated with Amber Alert to support and assist them
    in locating missing and/or abducted children.
    Amber Alert has FREE 24/7 access!
    NARC will NOT profit on the back of the US tax payer and is happy to help Amber Alert at no charge.”

    *DISGUSTING AND UNFORGIVABLE*
    —————————
    “To help The US Dep’t of Homeland Security find terrorists”

    joenorman.com/featured-business—narc-technologies.html

    12 noon (eastern time) Daily conference call
    (605) 475-4333 access code: 641077#

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  9. Could this be our ‘joe?’
    joenorman.com/featured-business—narc-technologies.html

    Seems he was always a part of every other shady program out there, so why not this one? Just wondering.

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  10. “Joe Norman” is either an audacious conman or a extremely naive “true believer” who’s cruisin’ for a bruisin”

    His Narc That Car website links to his personal page:http://www.joenorman.com/ which features pictures of his family and, as well as linking to a whole range of other dubious online “businesses” (including Narc That Car) in which he’s involved, also describes Mr Normans’ career with the Seattle Seahawks.

    One would think the phrase “knew or ought to have known” may soon become important in the lives of many involved in the Narc That Car scam.

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  11. littleroundman: “Joe Norman” is either an audacious conman or a extremely naive “true believer” who’s cruisin’ for a bruisin”His Narc That Car website links to his personal page:http://www.joenorman.com/ which features pictures of his family and, as well as linking to a whole range of other dubious online “businesses” (including Narc That Car) in which he’s involved, also describes Mr Normans’ career with the Seattle Seahawks.One would think the phrase “knew or ought to have known” may soon become important in the lives of many involved in the Narc That Car scam.  (Quote)

    Now that I checked out his website, I am sure he is not “our joe.” He does have a nice looking family, and I feel for them as I tend to think he is on the “naive true believer” side of MLM Internet programs; but may regret it big time soon.

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  12. No complaints at the FTC, BBB, and have been checked out by professionals that know how to get the information. The company and principles of this company have been throughly checked.

    Now, there may be over zealous people stating things they shouldn’t, which I’m sure the company will get a grip on.

    No reason though to hurt a business by putting on this watch list as if they were crimials.

    Don’t call a business a SCAM or Ponzi so quickly either!!!!!

    I’ve sent this article to the company. They have every right to respond you all of you. So quickly to point fingers and take jabs at something you don’t have the facts from the company.

    Shame on you!

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  13. Ok. Going to fast…criminals

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  14. I sorry, ” but may regret it big time soon” HOW!!! Andy Bowiden is walking around. All the mods are walking around. All the big playes since ASD, that got into AVG (knowing ANDY own it) are still walking around. NEWSFLASH!!! Steve Renners INETGLOBAL after almost going out of business found a woman from Canada who started Inetglobal in china. last month Inetglobal had sales of 26,000,000.with over 50,000 members (most in china) And now the big playes in the MLM world are telling people that it’s just starting here in America, and these big time promoters will make it happen. I don’t see any arrests, Do you know who told me this? not one but 3 big time hitters with ASD!!! all still walking the street. Oh andby the way Andy is telling them ASD will be back this summer!!! Throw that Bastard in JAIL, NOW!!!!!

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  15. Charlie:

    I am sorry to have to tell you this but your professionals are not very good at what they do. First and foremost checking the BBB and FTC web site for complaints is as lame as asking your local sheriff to put air in your tires because you heard he would.

    You may want to contact the FBI and ask them to verify that William Forrester the head of Narc That Car ever worked for them. Since I have already talked with them I know the answer and I hope that you are sitting down when they tell you the bad news.

    So far everything that Patrick has posted concerning their affiliations with various organizations has proven to be a lie so unless you can come in here and show some proof that they are such good guys other than what they have told you then I would keep my mouth shut.

    Also, consider this: If they had the affiliations with all they claim to have then why take all that information off of your site?

    Many of us on here have heard these same crappy stories from members of ASD including that they used professionals to check out the company and they were clean. Its the same old same old just at a different place and using a different name.

    ITS A PONZI!

      (Quote)

  16. Charlie: No complaints at the FTC, BBB,

    Actually, Charlie, the BBB asked the company on Jan. 18 to provide information on advertising claims and its compensation plan. Narc responded to the inquiry, and the the matter is still pending.

    Charlie: Now, there may be over zealous people stating things they shouldn’t,

    May be? Does a claim that Narc That Car is helping “The US Dep’t of Homeland Security find terrorists” qualify as overzealous in your book?

    How about claims that Narc That Car is endorsed by the FBI and that people who join it are helping Amber Alert?

    If, say, 20 people were influenced by those claims and sent Narc That Car a total of $2,499 to qualify as independent consultants and begin the process of fanning out to parking lots at places such as McDonald’s and Best Buy to record license-plate numbers — as instructed by a downline group — would you say Narc That Car came into possession of that money legitimately?

    The reason I ask is that promoters of AdSurfDaily told the troops that ASD President Andy Bowdoin had received a special award from the White House, a claim the Secret Service later said was untrue. After that, the Secret Service said claims about ASD in videos were untrue.

    The ASD case — a case about false claims — polluted about $100 million, according to the Secret Service. The Secret Service ended up seizing all of the money to keep it from polluting even more money.

    On a side note, the very first promotion I saw for Narc That Car was from a promoter on the former Golden Panda Ad Zone forum. Golden Panda’s assets (about $14 million) were seized in the ASD case. Here is the specific claim the promoter made about Narc That Car:

    “A company out of Dallas needs to grow a data base of license plates to use for Amber Alerts and other reasons.”

    So, in the very first sentence of the pitch, Amber Alert was used to sell Narc That Car. The promoter was a person named “Charlie,” BTW.

    Wasn’t you, was it?

    In any event, Amber Alert was mentioned only 18 words into the pitch.

    Your analysis of the situation is that promoters “may be” acting in overzealous fashion.

    Patrick

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  17. Charlie: No complaints at the FTC, BBB, and have been checked out by professionals that know how to get the information.The company and principles of this company have been throughly checked.Now, there may be over zealous people stating things they shouldn’t, which I’m sure the company will get a grip on.No reason though to hurt a business by putting on this watch list as if they were crimials.Don’t call a business a SCAM or Ponzi so quickly either!!!!!I’ve sent this article to the company.They have every right to respond you all of you.So quickly to point fingers and take jabs at something you don’t have the facts from the company.Shame on you!  

    Charlie,

    Who are the professionals that checked out this business? Did you speak with them or was this information passed on to you?

    We seem to be in agreement that there are some “overzealous” people advertising FALSE information.

    At what point does someone become responsible for telling/perpetuating lies a.k.a. false information?

    Here’s what Joe Norman says about himself on his fairly elaborate website:

    “The Home Business Development Center
    *Home Business Match Experts – 17 Year Industry Veterans
    We only research, recommend and work with the most qualified, successful, and fastest growing products, services and business opportunities in the world. Our network of industry insiders, marketing professionals and analysts have done all the hard work (so you won’t have to). We know what the hottest products, best opportunities – and – also know what products and companies are that you should avoid at this time.”

    Should this guy be given the benefit of the doubt and be considered naive, gullible, and “overzealous”? You tell me, please.

    Also, before I “judged” this, I researched how it works. Perhaps you can make more sense of the issues I have:

    Why limit the plates to 10 if the goal is to expand a data base?

    Why require clients but then give away a virtual client if a level is reached?

    What is the outside income sustaining this business and recruit money doesn’t apply as that would be illegal?

    I will look forward to hearing from you to help me make sense of this and then I will admonish myself for jumping to such silly, premature conclusions.

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  18. And I forgot one:

    What would stop people from plugging in out of date sightings of plates?

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  19. Patrick,

    One point that seems to be overlooked abit, especially by the pro-Ponzi — errr, I mean pro-Narc group is that Narc is already established as an illegal pyramid scheme. As with the early ASD arguments, Narc says they are operating legally, but…..

    I would wager any amount, at long odds, that nearly 100% of the payouts to “old” members have come from the initiation fees of the new fish — errr — members. Actually the math is quite clear on that. If for example you had 10000 members in Narc, that would mean that after 1 month you’d have 100,000 license plates written down with 100,000 semi-random locations. Suppose a repo company wants to buy a report from Narc. With 250 million registered cars, that would put the probability of the vehicle being on the list at 0.04% (4 in ten thousand). What do you suppose the relative value is for the repo company when comparing the 0.04% chance that the vehicle is on the list at a semi-random location (and that location must be different than the home address associated vehicle, because the repo company already has that information)? Well, given that they get the home address for free, I am guessing that it is pretty low. Thus the real external revenue, certainly at startup and through the first few months, must be vanishingly small.

    ASD sold the same load of c—. Remember when the promoters and advocates claimed all sorts of external revenues? They had near zero, in the end. Same thing here. So we are stuck, in Narc, of so far paying old members with new member mioney, just like ASD. If you wanted to be a legal enterprise, you could build your company by paying the old members out of the capital of the founders, you could pay them out of the ongoing sales of real products to real customers, but you CANNOT pay old members with new member money. THAT is the essence of the whole Ponzi/pyramid/fraud allegation. Further, and I know you know this, as do the pro-Narc folks (they’re scammers, so they know all about the scamming laws but don’t admit to them….), but once the “company” has gone down the illegal path of paying old with new, they cannot later transform into a legal enterprise and wash away the past illegalities (again, see the old ASD arguments, esp. by the likes of Bill Brabant). Thus, even if Narc were in the future able to generate sufficient sales revenue to pay rebates, they’d still be on the hook for the original illegalities.

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  20. Patrick: It appears that narcthatcar is either part of a larger scheme or a new knockoff has emerged — http://datanetworkaffiliates.com/

    I’ve not had the time to research to see if there is a relationship between the two, but, the pitch is very similar.

    Will advise what I find out.

    ARWR

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  21. Random walk:

    I found this concerning one of the executives of data network affiliates which I found interesting:

    Anthony Sasso As Chief Data Consultant to the Board:

    is currently owner of the largest database of text numbers in the world. Over 120 million in the U.S.A. alone.

    The following search terms have been highlighted for you: Anthony aka The King Of Data For Dollars

    http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/257/1013/625262/

    Defendant-Appellant Norman King appeals his conviction and sentence on 19 counts of a 50-count indictment. The indictment charged him with engaging in three mail fraud schemes, using counterfeit postage meter stamps and money laundering. Though he pled guilty to the 19 counts, he now challenges the validity of the plea, as well as the district court’s application of the United States Sentencing Guidelines (“U.S.S.G.”) and the amount of restitution imposed. The government, in addition to disputing King’s contentions, argues that this court lacks jurisdiction to hear the appeal under 28 U.S.C. § 1291. We conclude that jurisdiction is proper. We affirm the conviction but vacate the sentence and remand for re-sentencing.

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  22. Yes, it seems there is some competition or could it be collusion with regard to data network affiliates?

    Here are some quotes which I have entitled, FREE OR NOT THAT FREE:

    “Yes and no. Depends on if you upgrade for the other services or products but we can make money for free too. Right now just sign up for free. Get in ASAP. It is exploding.”

    “OPTIONAL Business Starter Pack which includes
    the Data Entry Software Website, $1,000 in FREE “real” REWARD $$$,……add to it a FREE* fantastic travel advantage package sold for the past
    20 years for $399 and more. All for $97 + $29.97 monthly which is less
    than a DOLLAR A DAY ??”

    “A Free $350 Independent Travel Consultant Program. You Earn The Same Financial Rewards Travel Agents Earn..”
    “*the free $399 travel advantage package does have a one time $49
    processing fee”

    “FREE INSTANT SALES SYSTEM. The $197 Set Up Fee is waived for all D.N.A. Members and Customers and when you have 3 signups even the $29.95 monthly is waived.”

    “All of the above is a fraction of a fraction
    of what you will receive for FREE when
    you PURCHASE the D.N.A. Package!
    Cost to become a D.N.A. IREP is 100% FREE!”

    ( Did I just see the word, purchase above?)

    “ACTIVE AFFILIATE: In order to qualify for any management or group bonuses you must have a minimum of 20 tags that you have personally entered into your back office in the same month for which management or group bonuses could have been earned.? ”

    ( I wonder if the back office is free?)

    Now here is the best value that one gets for free when he purchases the D.N.A. package:

    “This book is only second to the Bible… When reading it however remember to add GOD to all the
    Think And Grow Rich Principles and you will find REAL SUCCESS…
    Napoleon Hill’s Classic “Think and Grow Rich”

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  23. Hello Entertained,

    Entertained: but once the “company” has gone down the illegal path of paying old with new, they cannot later transform into a legal enterprise and wash away the past illegalities (again, see the old ASD arguments, esp. by the likes of Bill Brabant). Thus, even if Narc were in the future able to generate sufficient sales revenue to pay rebates, they’d still be on the hook for the original illegalities.

    Your analysis is much appreciated. One of the most striking things to me so far is the apparent lack of analysis on matters pertaining to the math AND the very real privacy and safety issues in play here.

    The core message among the promoters appears to be saddle up, head on down to Walmart or McDonald’s, get out your pad and paper, write down 10 plate numbers, enter the info in the Narc That Car database — and go forward and recruit.

    I haven’t seen a single promo that didn’t describe Narc That Car as a slam-dunk. Haven’t seen a single participants’ promo that recommended any caution at all — mathematical, legal or otherwise. Sustainability, privacy and safety issues appear to have been virtually ignored.

    I’m wondering if people are writing down their own plate numbers and entering them in the database. Lots of people could knock down two or more plates in their own driveway and garage. If the prospect of recording their own plate numbers is giving them pause, I wonder how they’re persuading themselves its OK to write down the plate numbers of strangers.

    In your comment above, you raise the issue of unringing the Ponzi bell after it has been rung. Along those lines, I’m wondering how a company that may be coming into possession of large sums of money based on the lies and misrepresentations advanced by its “independent consultants” ever can determine what percentage of its revenue pool was arrived at cleanly — even before it starts sending checks.

    As you know, ASD had that problem. It’s anybody’s guess how a bell such as that can be unrung. The ASD prosecutors have strongly suggested that the company did not collect a single dollar lawfully in its history, and that’s an issue IN ADDITION TO the Ponzi issue: being in receipt of corrupt money before it even was dispensed in the form of Ponzi payments.

    In short, pure, unadulterated GIGO — GIGO that made it impossible to hold clean dollars because the weight of the false claims infected every single dollar that flowed into ASD.

    Patrick

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  24. Quote from makingeasymoney on scam.com

    “LOL False claims or changing their website? They are affilitated with Code Amber Alert and it is tied into the Natl Amber Alert program. People who get texts alerts for the Amber Alert program are getting them from Narc as well. No hiding or changing anything there. Skeptical and negative people will never see this as an ingenious idea. Athens Review stated the DA is not doing criminal investigation and Narc is fully complying with AG office. So what’s next? The AG office is a scam and will vouch that Narc is legal because…??????? CALL Tx AG office and ask your questions.”

    Looks like people can pay for a sponsorship – See below.

    It is a good thing but when a company presents it to be something it’s not is what is so lousy about it.

    Reminiscent of Old Andy paying for his presidential medal don’t you think?

    http://codeamber.org/link_application.php

    Code Amber Ticker Sponsor and Sponsor Link Application

    Sponsorship of the Code Amber Ticker is now available (please see the ticker above for an example) in addition to our Sponsor Links as shown to the right. Ticker Sponsorships are available on a non exclusive basis. Please use the form below to tell us about your company and web site. We will review your application and get back to you with availability and pricing within two business days.

    Sponsor Links on the Code Amber site will be viewed thousands of times every day. The links are static and your presence will be indexed by Google. Our high Page Ranks, and linking to your site, will improve your Page Rank and enhance your SEO.

    Sponsor Links will be displayed on the Code Amber home page as well as other select high volume pages on the site including Amber Alert and Missing Endangered detail pages.

    We do not share your information with any third party. The information we request is used only to determine the suitability of your web site for inclusion as a Sponsor Link. Sponsor Links are sold on an annual basis. There are two pricing options for Sponsor Links (please see above for Ticker Sponsor pricing) . Option one is $495 for the year if you provide a link back to Code Amber News Service on the page we link to on your site. Option two is $995 for the year with no link requirement. Space is limited and Sponsor Links are sold on a first come basis.

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  25. Here’s a post that mentions Jeff Long. Anyone know of him?

    “Hi there everyone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
    I have worked online last 5 years
    NARC THAT CAR was introduced to me by Jeff Long one of the big fish.
    He told me to jump on this that one of the top earners or earner.
    made 80,000 last month. I don’t need near that much to make me a happy camper.
    I will keep everyone posted.
    Thanks
    Marty & Dawn”

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  26. char: Here’s a post that mentions Jeff Long. Anyone know of him?

    Found this:
    http://www.prlog.org/10041395-dubaimlm-is-it-scam.html

    DubaiMLM was a Phil Piccolo scam. Yes, that Phil Piccolo, the one man internet crime wave.

    Jeff was also involved with something called “instant capture page” – a web tool.

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  27. Jack Arons: Charlie:I am sorry to have to tell you this but your professionals are not very good at what they do. First and foremost checking the BBB and FTC web site for complaints is as lame as asking your local sheriff to put air in your tires because you heard he would.You may want to contact the FBI and ask them to verify that William Forrester the head of Narc That Car ever worked for them. Since I have already talked with them I know the answer and I hope that you are sitting down when they tell you the bad news.So far everything that Patrick has posted concerning their affiliations with various organizations has proven to be a lie so unless you can come in here and show some proof that they are such good guys other than what they have told you then I would keep my mouth shut.Also, consider this: If they had the affiliations with all they claim to have then why take all that information off of your site?Many of us on here have heard these same crappy stories from members of ASD including that they used professionals to check out the company and they were clean. Its the same old same old just at a different place and using a different name.ITS A PONZI!  

    They would require you to put more money in it Jack if it were a Ponzi!!!!

    No more than the $24.95 to keep up the website and you don’t even have to do that. You can ask for forms from the company. So, this has nothing to do with a Ponzi. You see I work for an engineering firm that is paid well by awarded contracts to do just what this company is doing. Gathering information (license plates numbers) and furnishing them to the state for a different reason, but still the same …selling information which helps them in future decisions.

    So, I think you need to back up on this one.

    Charlie

      (Quote)

  28. admin:
    Actually, Charlie, the BBB asked the company on Jan. 18 to provide information on advertising claims and its compensation plan. Narc responded to the inquiry, and the the matter is still pending.
    May be? Does a claim that Narc That Car is helping “The US Dep’t of Homeland Security find terrorists” qualify as overzealous in your book?How about claims that Narc That Car is endorsed by the FBI and that people who join it are helping Amber Alert?
    If, say, 20 people were influenced by those claims and sent Narc That Car a total of $2,499 to qualify as independent consultants and begin the process of fanning out to parking lots at places such as McDonald’s and Best Buy to record license-plate numbers — as instructed by a downline group — would you say Narc That Car came into possession of that money legitimately?The reason I ask is that promoters of AdSurfDaily told the troops that ASD President Andy Bowdoin had received a special award from the White House, a claim the Secret Service later said was untrue. After that, the Secret Service said claims about ASD in videos were untrue.The ASD case — a case about false claims — polluted about $100 million, according to the Secret Service. The Secret Service ended up seizing all of the money to keep it from polluting even more money.On a side note, the very first promotion I saw for Narc That Car was from a promoter on the former Golden Panda Ad Zone forum. Golden Panda’s assets (about $14 million) were seized in the ASD case. Here is the specific claim the promoter made about Narc That Car:“A company out of Dallas needs to grow a data base of license plates to use for Amber Alerts and other reasons.”So, in the very first sentence of the pitch, Amber Alert was used to sell Narc That Car. The promoter was a person named “Charlie,” BTW.Wasn’t you, was it?In any event, Amber Alert was mentioned only 18 words into the pitch.
    Your analysis of the situation is that promoters “may be” acting in overzealous fashion.

    Patrick,

    So now I know to use the words Amber Code. Not Amber Alert. They furnish the list for free to them.

    I work for a engineering firm that does what this company does, just as they get paid by business for access to the data base, we get paid by state contracts for the same kind of information. The states spend alot of money collecting license plates numbers…collecting them from the side of the road for 24, 48 hours sometimes to gain the data to give to the states for transportation reasons. What’s the difference? It’s the business of information. NARC doesn’t require anymore dollars to be spent other than the first 100 which they use as an incentive. The $24.95 a month is not require to stay in the business, you can ask for forms from the company and fill them out and send them in. So what is your beef with this company!!!!!!!!!!! All I know is I see mean spirited people that have nothing better to do than shoot off their mouth. This has NOTHING to do with ASD, Golden Panda. NOTHING LIKE IT. If people that in the past have crossed over to the dark side of MLM, decide to work for a company that is legit, doesn’t make the company or the program unworthy. I believe in duplication. I believe and love networking, meeting new people, but not the hateful reasons I see in the written word here. The ONLY reason I am even posting on this site, is because I think crap needs to be called crap. I get paid every day at a job where they do the same thing..furnish information (data) to business, local and state governments. THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT IT!. I have 7 PI’s that are on my team. There will be those who believe in the system of duplication, and others who won’t. Some believe it’s ok to run their mouth off (freedom of speech) I respect, but not when it is to HURT a company and the people trying so hard to improve their bottom line with a legit business.

    Charlie a Mom, Grandmother who wants to see others have an income opportunity to help make up for what their not getting paid to do in the real job market.

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  29. I have not seen were on the site said that Amber Alert is affiliated with Narc. Narc will assist Amber Alert by having consultants on the look out. About the FBI endorsement I have not seen this statement before on the site. There is a bunch on people in the business putting all kind of different stuff that is not approved by the company. In fact not to long ago a few consultants were terminated due to violation of terms. This company is not kidding around. The ceo is making people to take videos that there are not approved by the company. To be honest I don’t care were Mr William worked for I like the idea that’s. Oh, put your telephone number on the internet and for about $30-$50 they will sale all your information, a map with your location and more. Can they do that? Paparazzi what do they do with the pic’s they take? that is data, information to be sale to others.

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  30. From:
    http://www.betternetworker.com/articles/view/mlm-news/narcthatcar-expert-review-narc-technologies

    How does the company pay?

    NARC uses the enrollment fee and monthly website fees to pay their consultants.

    i.e. they are using new money (from enrolments and fees) to pay the old investors. Sorry, I mean “consultants”. No, wait, I’m right, they are investors:

    How will I get my investment back?

    Yes, it’s an investment.

      (Quote)

  31. I got a little info on “big fish” in narcthatcar Jeff Long.

    “Google and Jeff Long, Bob Dececco and Franco Gonzalez with the term cash gifting. They have all been involved in illegal cash gifting as discussed on several threads here and they get involved with other serial scammers of ill repute as well as you found. Bob Dececco was on here with something like ten IDs battling the truth tellers here and making a complete fool of himself.’

    posted by Soapboxmom at scam.com

      (Quote)

  32. Holy schmoly! Why am I not surprised? It would take me a year to go through all the info on scam.com but here’s a few opinions about Jeff Long who is apparently big in narcthatcar.

    ProfHenryHiggins
    Senior Member
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Posts: 718

    Re: Bob DeCecco / theTRAFFICplan with Jack Weinzie
    Considering that DeCecco was a player in both The 540 Plan and Abundant Living System, partnered with Jeff Long, I would say that this program screams scam even without Mr. Weinzierl. DeCecco, Long, and Astore were the trio who appeared to running The 540 Plan scheme, and Long was most assuredly at the heart of ALS with Astore handling his finances.
    ————

    Soapboxmom
    Senior Scambusting Moderator —- Don’t mess with Mom!!!!!
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: Mars
    Posts: 5,178

    Re: Bob DeCecco / theTRAFFICplan with Jack Weinzie
    http://www.free-press-release.com/ne…222410885.html
    That scumbag Jeff Long thinks cash gifting (Abundant Living System) is legal. When it is set up as a business opportunity it is always ILLEGAL!!! That is a no product pyramid scheme!
    I recommend that folks stay as far away as they can get from Jack Weinzierl, Bob Dececco, Jeff Long and Franco Gonzalez. What a sleazy bunch!
    —————–

    How is it that these same people are allowed to continue to steal people’s money? I just don’t get it.

      (Quote)

  33. alasycia: It appears that the owners and promoters of this latest mlm/ponzi have sunk to a new ethical low with their claims that they are associated with Amber Alert and other honorable organizations. Their claims this time are totally immoral and shamelessAs was already commented over at scam dot com, If your child went missing, would you be happy to rely on a group of avid MLMers giving random and out of date info who are looking to Make Easy Money for their safety? (Making Easy Money was the handle used by one of the narcthatcar members posting there)With ASD, it was a first time incursion into the online “business” world and there were victims amongst the membership. However, anyone involving themselves in this who promotes it as a way of helping desparate parents deserves to be taken out and shot.  (Quote)

    If my child was missing, I would not care who they used to find them. If they are able to help find one child it would be worth all of these negative comments!!!!

      (Quote)

  34. littleroundman: “Joe Norman” is either an audacious conman or a extremely naive “true believer” who’s cruisin’ for a bruisin”His Narc That Car website links to his personal page:http://www.joenorman.com/ which features pictures of his family and, as well as linking to a whole range of other dubious online “businesses” (including Narc That Car) in which he’s involved, also describes Mr Normans’ career with the Seattle Seahawks.One would think the phrase “knew or ought to have known” may soon become important in the lives of many involved in the Narc That Car scam.  (Quote)

    WoW, I can’t believe you are calling this a scam when you don’t know what your talking about!!

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  35. Clark:
    If my child was missing, I would not care who they used to find them. If they are able to help find one child it would be worth all of these negative comments!!!!  

    Clark,

    Perhaps you’ll find some value in this comment by Entertained:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2010/02/08/now-a-narc-that-car-training-video-shot-by-promoter-in-parking-lot-of-giant-eagle-supermarket-chain-im-not-going-to-talk-to-anybody-narrator-says/comment-page-1/#comment-9084

    Patrick

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  36. Clark,

    Let me ask you a real question. Your child has been kidnapped, and against all odds the license plate of the car of the kidnapper has been seen and recounted accurately by a witness, AND the plate happens to be in the NTC database. You get one chance. Do you want the authorities to follow up searching in the vicinity of where that car was sighted at random by a NTC scammer 6 months ago, or do you want the authorities to search in and around the home address of the kidnapper? You do realize the authorities have limited resources….so, you only get to chose one. Chose wrong, your child dies….I’ll even make it better for you. The authorities can spare 2 full-time people to search. Do you want both to search around the home address and other viable leads (like talking to acquaintences/friends/family of the kidnapper), or to search around that gas station 50 miles away where NTC spotted the car 6 months ago? Chose wrong, your child dies….. I’ll even make it better still. You believe so strongly in the value of NTC, I’ll make you an offer. You and I each put an amount of your choice (I’d start with $10,000) in trust with Patrick P. If, after 1 year, the FBI announces that they have solved a child abduction due to the NTC database, you get my $10,000. If not, I’ll take your $10,000 and donate to the real Amber Alert program. C’mon Clark, put your money where your mouth is…..

    Clark: If my child was missing, I would not care who they used to find them. If they are able to help find one child it would be worth all of these negative comments!!!!  (Quote)

      (Quote)

  37. Please answer these Questions Straight!

    1. Is Phil Piccolo involved in Data network affiliates?

    2. If he is, what is his roll, is he a rep or worse?

    3. If the above answer is yes, is there any proof?

      (Quote)

  38. Sorry: previous email was wrong

      (Quote)

  39. I was looking Narc website and I didn’t see that they are affiliated with any LEO, FBI, Banks.. Where all this coming from? Probably people that wants to recruit and look good by saying this things. They are not affiliated with amber alert…there is alot of people out there running to get a quick dollar. CEO of Narc worked for the FBI? On the website don’t said anything. I called the company and they don’t know were this coming from. Must of the time Reps are the companies worst enemies with all the misleading statements trying to get people in. Shame..

    Kiko

      (Quote)

  40. Corrected version

    Wow.

    Some people talk on here like they have access to the accounting information of NTC. Do the writers of this forum have facts or assumptions, and personal opinions what are you all promulgating here? I have reviewed the NTC video on the “AUTHORIZED” website and as far as I know the only authorized video presentation. I did not see any were on the authorized website/portal as they call it any thing that said Mr Forester worked for the FBI. (FACT)

    In the video it states “Narchthatcar.com was started TO PROVIDE HISTORICAL LOCATION DATA FOR LIEN HOLDERS LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OTHER ENTITIES.”

    That is what the authorized version states. (FACT)

    The owner of this site (PatrickPretty.com) should put a link to the video so everyone can see the authorized video. (Truth)

    In the presentation, in the form of a question, it states:

    “What Clients are Interested in Narc That Car?

    Major Auto Manufactures
    Private Lien Holders
    Banks
    In House Auto Dealers
    Commercial Vehicles Companies.”

    and many others is stated in the audio.

    That is the what the authorized presentation states. (FACT)

    The next part of the authorized presentation states, in the form of a question again:

    “Who else can use Narc That Car data?

    Law Enforcement Agencies
    Government Agencies
    Missing Persons
    Amber Alert”

    That is what the authorized presentation states. (FACT)

    If you go to the BBB web site and look up the company you will see what someone has stated about NTC the BBB rating is NR. Go to the BBB and read it for your self.

    I attempted to locate a list of names of all the people in the company to include Independent consultants/contractors.

    Of course I could not obtain one so who has the list? and speaks (FACTS)

    Oh.. I almost forgot if you look at the BBB you will see 0 (zero) Complaints as of the writing of this.

    In the NTC documentation it does state that all media (all forms and types print, online, etc)

    “advertising must be pre-approved before it can be used.” (FACT)

    The verbiage goes into much detail and is very adamant about not creating and using advertisement without prior approval. (FACT)

    I did not quote it all.

    My Disclaimer: I am not speaking for the company or any of it’s affiliations. I have reviewed the “Authorized” presentation’s Video and PDF and make my opinions are based on the video and the PDF’s.

    It might be good for the owner of this site to put a Disclaimer at the bottom of each of it’s pages to the tune of something like this:

    A Recommendation for PatrickPretty.com:

    Disclaimer:

    These opinions and assumptions are intended purely as a communication of information in accordance with the right of free speech. They do not constitute financial, legal, or tax advice – merely opinions based on xxxxx own research and that of others. Anyone seeking such advice should consult a competent professional who has at least some expertise on endless chain or pyramid selling schemes. Readers are specifically advised to obey all applicable laws, whether or not enforced in their area. Neither the xxxxxx nor the authors assume any responsibility for the consequences of anyone acting according to the information on this site .

    With that I state in conclusion:

    Talk is cheep unless it is backed up with evidence in truth. Remember the truth can be perverted also.

    Love and Light
    RaMac

      (Quote)

  41. RaMac: I have reviewed the NTC video on the “AUTHORIZED” website and as far as I know the only authorized video presentation.

    RaMac,

    Whether it’s the only “authorized” video or not, it does not change the fact that Narc That Car members are using their own videos and other promos in a bid to build downlines.

    One promoter who says he has a 100-member team recorded a video in the parking lot of a Giant Eagle. He says he’s “training” his team and “Truly Knows” Narc That Car.

    It’s far from clear that he had Giant Eagle’s permission to record a Narc That Car sales pitch in its parking lot or asked permission to record the plate numbers of patrons. The video says nothing about propriety, safety or legality — and yet that’s how he’s training his 100-member downline.

    His 100 members means Narc That Car received $10,000, perhaps as much as $12,495.

    Another video promoter told Narc That Car prospects that he captured 100 plates on his iPhone while strolling a Walmart parking lot. He said he captured so many plates that he had enough to give away to prospects, suggesting even that he could give some of them 10 — enough to qualify for a $55 payout without having to leave home.

    Let’s say he lived in Florida and the plate numbers were recorded at a Florida Walmart. Let’s say a person from Hawaii joins his downline, and the sponsor gives him 10 plate numbers to enter into the system and get the $55 payout.

    This means, of course, that a person in Hawaii who never actually saw the car is reporting it was in a Walmart parking lot in Florida or perhaps even fabricating an address. Lots of potential for GIGO there. Maybe the person in Hawaii will give the plate number to someone in Michigan, who tells the system he saw the car at the Kmart in Kalamazoo or elsewhere.

    The Walmart promoter didn’t say how many downline members he had.

    RaMac: In the NTC documentation it does state that all media (all forms and types print, online, etc)

    “advertising must be pre-approved before it can be used.” (FACT)

    The verbiage goes into much detail and is very adamant about not creating and using advertisement without prior approval. (FACT)

    How can Narc That Car tell if the money it is collecting is not tainted by lies, misrepresentations and omissions before it gets there?

    What if the 100 members claimed by the promoter in the Giant Eagle parking lot get three people each — and train their members in the same fashion their upline sponsor trained them?

    His training, effectively, consisted of telling people to go to the parking lot of a supermarket and write down 10 plate numbers. He said he did not even know the address of the Giant Eagle, but would return home to find it online. It really makes it look as though he ducked the store manager.

    So, if that’s his training, the issue becomes one about recording plate numbers by subterfuge. In other words, it’s OK to use retailers’ parking lots, but it’s best not to tell the retailer about it.

    What if the people in the Walmart promoter’s downline all follow his lead — recording 100 plates or more, and using the excess as perks for incoming downline members?

    I saw an ad three days ago (now gone) that advised members to join Narc That Car to help AMBER Alert find repossessed cars. People are throwing things against the wall that don’t even make sense.

    Me? I think Narc That Car’s own use of AMBER Alert’s name encouraged the wretched excess that followed. And I think the same is true of references to law enforcement and government agencies.

    And I think the promoters themselves will find ways to game the system and pollute whatever theoretical value the data has.

    Patrick

      (Quote)

  42. This is the last time I will comment on the subject. I did not say and do not argue that some IC’s/Independent Consultants or, contractors (called IC’s) are not following the Law, Policies and Procedures that is true within any company or entity look at our government!

    Personal note: ($450 million for green energy in Texas! oops sorry the jobs are in China and Japan so our government sends the money over seas, HEE HEE HEE oops, they did not tell you that.)

    That does not mean the a company or it’s business plan is or are corrupt. I said they (meaning some IC’s Independent Consultants/Contractors) are not following protocol (law, Policies, Procedures). That happens in all types of companies, organizations, governments.

    You are doing a lot of thinking and what if’s in your reply. Once again, provide the link to the video for all to see and evaluate and make their opinions on it. (is it the company or the IC’s) all I see are comments about IC’s

    Any contractor or independent consultant, or for that matter citizen(s) are liable for what they do and say even on here. Why don’t you go after the individuals that take and twist the information and a possibly a good opportunity. Clearly you can see that an individual or company in any part of the country can not control an individual in any other part of the country or even from within it own company doors, and don’t even get me started on the internet. Ignorance of the law (any law, Policies and Procedures is not excuse) Last I checked.

    All I am saying is let’s not toss out the baby with the bath water when the bath water has not been determined to be dirty. Let us expose what makes the bath water dirty.

    Some times it is hard to see the forest because of all the trees.

    Ok, I will do a what if:

    What if this company was complying with all the laws and not breaking any.

    What if the government said, OK no more unemployment we are changing it to employment. The government will be giving everyone the opportunity to become a part of this NTC company if you are on unemployment and choose to accept. If you decline your on your own. How much money would the government save? How well would the local economies be?

    Just a what if.

    Love and Light
    RaMac

      (Quote)

  43. RaMac: What if this company was complying with all the laws and not breaking any.

    What “company” ????

    Have you seen the company ???

    Have you seen their premises ???

    Have you met any of its’ staff ????

    Seen the “database” ???

    Have you seen the source of their revenue ???

    Contacted AmberAlert yourself ???

    Met any of the supposed Law Enforcement Officer members ??

    Do you know the person who claims to have signed up the L.E.O.s ???

    Here’s a little tip for you,

    If you go here: http://nolonow.nolo.com/noe/popup/NNLLCTXBAS_faq.html#topic5 NOLO will form a Texas registered Limited Liability Corporation (LLC) in a name of your choice for as little as $129 online.

    You can pick up a FREE domain name here: http://www.verio.com/

    Throw in a custom script for under $100 (or a pirated script for $0) pay a computer savvy high school student a few bucks to customize the cookie cutter website and VOILE’ you’re in business

      (Quote)

  44. To the above statement, Yes. Just because YOU haven’t seen the premises, toured the facility, met with the owners, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Of course there is a group of people that still think we didn’t send men to the moon.

    You can’t necessarily “see” a database, you can observe the system used to collect, categorize and distribute the information, and then there is the ten’s of thousands of dollars in training they are obtaining to put on their site, and you don’t just “slap” a website like this together-I don’t care who you are,

    Texas law would have shut them down long ago if they were frauds. You just don’t know what you are talking about so give it a rest. Also, there are no pay problems if anyone is interested in that. This is a new concept and it takes a little intelligence to understand how you use this information, that’s all.

      (Quote)

  45. To the admin, good questions, I wish you could stop all of the bad people who get into business with any MLM. Narc is associated with “Code Amber” (see, another rumor, but the truth is that they are using this information for the same purpose as the Amber Alert), basically the same type of system only larger, you can look that up on the net. I am glad for people that have a level head and will look at the facts, if only you could stop the people who don’t do things right. I would also suggest to the admin to signup for Narc and observe the website’s backoffice and how they make sure that the license plate information is correct and well documented or it spits it back out…Thank you for looking out for people Patrick. This one will work out, we just need to let it have a chance instead of getting uptight over conjecture.

      (Quote)

  46. Remind me, someone,

    did “Correction” ever mention having siblings ???

      (Quote)

  47. littleroundman: did “Correction” ever mention

    New readers may not understand LRM’s reference to “Correction.” See this story and Comments thread for background:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2009/06/03/adviewglobal-promoter-says-prospects-can-bypass-company-and-purchase-ad-packs-directly-from-sponsors-to-ensure-they-get-credited-with-200-percent-match-before-deadline/

    Patrick

      (Quote)

  48. Really anonymous, this comment of yours is naive in the extreme

    Texas law would have shut them down long ago if they were frauds.. They havent been going for long. They have already removed data from their Website relating to the Amber Alert programme and other stuff – maybe as a result of the comments flying all over the internet? The BBB far from approving them, have now issued a long statement on their page commenting that they are still awaiting answers to the questions they have put to the NarcThat Car people and have also put a warning abuot mlms at the bottom of it. NBC have commentted unfavorably on it and you do not know what the Texas authorities are doing at all, or whether or not they have received complaints.

    Although things happen faster than they used to, law enforcment does not usually stop schemes down over night. You may still be in for a surprise.

    signed: a not so anonymous alasycia

      (Quote)

  49. Not to knock you for what you wrote, you have legitimate concerns and I can see that, but aren’t you just bringing the same objections up? The BBB didn’t have 900 complaints, they were only inquiries and the OTHER watchdogs are using that as if they WERE complaints. As to the BBB asking questions, when did they post them? Are they giving some time to answer them? Have the Narc people NOT answered them and said they won’t? Have the Narc people IGNORED them, and several weeks gone by without comment back? You have to provide more facts before you start casting aspirations; even controversial companies you are scared of deserve a chance to explain themselves. “HERE, I gave you a list of questions yesterday and you haven’t answered them fast enough”-let’s give them a little time, after all this resembles an inquisition more than a fair inquiry.

    If the good folks from the Texas Authorities have removed data, could you give us the article so we see why they would not allow it? Without proof this makes no sense. I’m sure you have seen this somewhere legitimate, so, could you provide the link?

    Narc has been going for around 2 years, and what is “far from” approving them? (casting aspirations without fact again) Does that mean they(BBB) are scared to say they are legit, just in case it falls back on them? Wouldn’t that be Roman gladiator justice, thumb up or thumb down, according to the whim of the mob, but we don’t really want to look at facts just what WE (BBB) looks like? They know many people are watching them, so they are playing it safe, they wouldn’t want any blame pointed at THEM (How many MLM companies does the BBB “approve” of anyway?) Now that this is such a red hot topic, they are going to play their cards even more carefully. Imagine being the manager of that particular BBB and having so many inquiries and the news all over it, major pucker factor right? That’s like getting an IRS audit and having them sift through your dust traces to try to find something-because they get payed to find dirt and have to prove it was worth their efforts.

    NBC is looking for the same thing as other writers, you don’t get readership from reporting a woman’s tea party, you get it from controversy and they love to stir up more of it-it’s juicy and they know it. You should all look into how they report the news some day-you would be very shocked and appalled. AND how do you come up with “they have removed data related to the amber alert program?” They are gathering information for Code Amber, NOT Amber alert. (aspirations again?)

    2 years is pretty slow for the Texas authorities “not” shutting a program down. Even though the MLM part of this is only a couple of months old, this has been running for 2 years now, and selling data…

    REALLY, what we need to look at is the facts: Do they have a solid product? Are they legitimate business people? Are they selling this product to other companies, like they have said they do? Do they have money backing them? Do they have plans to make this a professional system? Will I get paid if I do this? Is this a pyramid, or is it NOT a pyramid? (If you answer these questions PLEASE make sure you have it from fact, not conjecture)

    Do they have a solid product? YES. They have sold the data to other companies.

    Are they legitimate business people? YES, I have heard nothing to the contrary, they DON’T go around starting pyramids or have started other infamous businesses.

    Are they selling this product to other companies, like they have said they do? YES, they have already sold data to other companies and have pepsico and other companies interested in this data.

    Do they have money backing them? YES. This is a very good business opportunity they are getting off of the ground, and they have money backing them.

    Do they have plans to make this a professional system? YES. You don’t dump money or obtain some of the best training in the MLM market if you think you are going to fail, they are planning for success and are hiring new customer service staff (here we go again…people complained that Narc wasn’t answering their phones, but if they were patient, they would have gotten the explanation that they actually TRAIN people while on the phones, they have more staff now, but they are training them to answer questions-large growth curve here)The training will be great and implemented when it is finished, I hope that the pressure from those around them doesn’t cause them to rush this.

    Is this a pyramid, or is it NOT a pyramid? NO, it is NOT a pyramid. This has a legitimate PRODUCT that has been sold and will be sold, that ties the front end distributorship into the back end that is financially fed by sales. I won’t get into the dynamics of what a pyramid structure is, but you can look that up on the net, and probably should.

    Awareness is a good thing, but when you go on a witch hunt instead of a legitimate inquiry, then you get tales of spooky ghosts, and those wishing to spread gossip instead of fact. Many people love a good bonfire, and it feels like peoples fears are presiding over fact-I thought we left that attitude when we passed out of the dark ages.

    The concept for utilizing masses for gathering information is used by the most successful companies in the United States, you just have to pay one way or another to obtain it.

    Another fact is that people are joining just to fill in plates for the Code Amber system-an extremely worthy cause any way you look at it.

    Part of the heavy response here is my fault, I take up a good debate and love to carry it out, I see the underdog and get into it, BUT let’s see if Narc actually WORKS. Let’s face it we all would love a good, solid MLM that works for everyone, this is just separating the rumors from the reality.

    There is very little money from the distributors side, it costs $125 total to join (not just $100, if you opt in for the backoffice), you get $50 for the first 10 license plates you gather and $5 per month for 10(maximum)plates every month afterwards, the other $25 covers their website and backoffice costs. Other MLM’s can actually charge much higher for a good backoffice.

    Narc does have clients and more are climbing on board daily, including Pepsico. Separating fact from fiction, that is what this should be about, not a witch hunt or a paparazzi feast.

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  50. alasycia, that’s a great name, I’m “really” anonymous, been around my kids too long…like “really”. I actually have a blog about this (who doesn’t) but I don’t want to draw attention to it and from Patrick’s site, that’s not my intent. So I’m answering questions based on what I know of the company, as accurately as I can.

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  51. Really anonymous: Do they have a solid product? YES. They have sold the data to other companies.

    No, the “product” has been shown to have little or no value. How do you know they have sold the data to other companies? Is this fact or conjecture?

    Really anonymous: Are they legitimate business people? YES, I have heard nothing to the contrary, they DON’T go around starting pyramids or have started other infamous businesses.

    No, virtually everyone associated with this obvious pyramid scheme have been shown to be involved with other pyramid schemes.

    Really anonymous: Do they have plans to make this a professional system? YES.

    No, the plan is obviously to turn this into a pyramid scheme. Why else would they rope in MLM “experts” like Jeff Long?

    Really anonymous: Are they selling this product to other companies, like they have said they do? YES, they have already sold data to other companies and have pepsico and other companies interested in this data.

    Have you checked with Pepsi if they are really interested in the data? Why would a cola manufacturer want this data? Is this another fact or conjecture?

    Really anonymous: Do they have money backing them? YES.

    No, by their own admission, they are paying old commission with money from new sales. This is the definition of a ponzi scheme.

    Really anonymous: Do they have plans to make this a professional system? YES.

    Do you mean that they are not currently a “professional” system? What are they now? A bunch of amateurs?

    On the BBB page it says “Business Management Additional company management personnel include: Josh Truitt”. I’m sure it is pure coincidence that on the list of top performers for December 2009 is “Josh Truitt”. Also on the list is “Jim Truitt” – any relation? Then there is “Brent Derrick” and “Lilly Derrick” – are they also related?
    http://licenseplategoesmlm.blogspot.com/

    Really anonymous: The concept for utilizing masses for gathering information is used by the most successful companies in the United States, you just have to pay one way or another to obtain it.

    What other companies operate a pyramid structure to gather data?

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  52. They have already removed data from their Website relating to the Amber Alert programme and other stuff – maybe as a result of the comments flying all over the internet?

    Perhaps it was not clear that the They I referred to were NarcThatCar, not the Texan authorities. The company has changed the content of its website several times recently, and removed references to several of the possible recipients of the NRC info. The source? I and many others have seen the site and the changes that were made recently with our own eyes.

    They have yet to provide any client list that includes well known or large companies, nor testimonials from them – in fact they yet have to produce anything more verified than hints about “interest” from household name businesses and suggestions that they may become future clients, That is not verified evidence of a client list. Anyone can visit any business to sell them their product and call them potential clients. They are not clients, however, until they sign on the dotted line. When and if there is evidence of a client list sufficient to maintain the payouts promised by NRC, and NOT using new members money, it will dispose of the ponzi argument, but not before

    I would question that thte product has intrinsic value. In fact, a random list of car plates, at the rate of 10 per person is insufficient material to build up a data base of real consequence, and even less because it is not available in real time. The Government already have a far larger and more real time data base of all vehicles registered in the US for the use of their police forces and other authorities. No claims of its usefullness have been made by any NRC non-member/retail-only client that we have been made aware of, and, judging by the fact that NRC and its promoters are not exactly backward in coming forward, its absence indicates they they dont have any clients who believe it is so useful

    It has even been suggested that the time lag between taking down a number plate and it being added to a data base could in practise hinder an investigation into a child abduction, should NTC (or DNA) data be used by the authorities ,as it could lead them to misleading data and wild goose chases, detracting from their objective of tracing a child.

    Lastly, the situation with the BBB is slightly different that the one you suggest. NRC WAS on the BBB “approved” list but has been taken off. The additional commentaries they make on the new entry and exceptionally explicit and are not typically found in such explicit terms on the majority of the businesses they rate.

    There is no witch hunt, just a lot of red flags and unanswered questions.

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  53. RA,

    I trust that you saw my post regarding the intrinsic value of the data that is being gathered by NTC. If not, the capsule version is that it can be shown that mathematically that the NTC data degrades in value over VERY short periods of time, becoming worthless or having a NEGATIVE value to possible customers such as repossession companies. Unfortunately, for the Amber Alert program, the NTC data is very dangerous, and worse than worthless. It is a real mathematical fact that the NTC data could even endanger an abducted child, rather than help locate the child. The math is pretty unforgiving — if you know anything at all about probability theory and about the real world resource constraints of every organization, including law enforcement agencies looking for an abductewd child, you would recognize the very real danger of the NTC data. If not, let me spell it out very clearly. Law enforcement using the NTC data is more dangerous to the hypothetical child than if law enforcement does not use the NTC data and instead uses their normal sources. Now, you might think this is hyperbole, but the math does not lie. I have laid out the math; it is now your turn to rebut, but rememeber, you better bring data nad facts and logic. While you are at it, take a crack at disproving the analysis that demonstartes that NTC is an unsustainable pyramid. I would reference the Black Box analysis of ASD, which mathematically is virtually identical to NTC — both can be analyzed in the same way…..good luck!

    Really anonymous: …..SNIP…..Another fact is that people are joining just to fill in plates for the Code Amber system-an extremely worthy cause any way you look at it………..SNIP
    BR>(Quote)

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  54. You have to have the horse and the cart to sell to larger corporations, so you still have to have the data to sell, hence the people to gather the data, etc.

    Pepsico:
    Headquartered in Purchase, New York, with Research and Development Headquarters in Valhalla, The Pepsi Cola Company began in 1898 by a NC Pharmacist and Industrialist Caleb Bradham, but it only became known as PepsiCo when it merged with Frito Lay in 1965. Until 1997, it also owned KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell, but these fast-food restaurants were spun off into Tricon Global Restaurants, now Yum! Brands, Inc. PepsiCo purchased Tropicana in 1998, and Quaker Oats in 2001. In December 2005, PepsiCo surpassed Coca-Cola Company in market value for the first time in 112 years since both companies began to compete – Wikipedia

    It’s not just “Pepsi” anymore.

    I’m sorry alasycia, it’s Sunday, and you are hurting my head, lol. It doesn’t matter whether you or I consider the information of value-only those who purchase that information. I also love your writing style, but maybe I just don’t get the point you are trying to make-my apologies.

    Tony H – The only two statements I see that you any support for are based on Jeff Long, Instant Capture page and whether or not they pay the money from their own pockets or from the proceeds of the distributor sales. Could you please let us know more detail on both of these points, and where you obtained the information, as it seems that it is written down somewhere. I wouldn’t personally consider the comment fields from other blogs as legitimate, however verified statements from Narc would be, and it sounds like you did indeed find a statement saying they are using the proceeds and have no cash-this would be interesting information to everyone.

    I have read some things about Jeff Long, and don’t want to fry him up or serve him for breakfast here, but perhaps you can give a good reason why this person has developed a permanent record with you that he could never enter into an MLM business again and be successful in it. You may have very legitimate concerns, and I respect that and am completely open to hearing the facts.

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  55. It is a pleasure to hear the opinions of the group here, and I also feel that websites like this serve a very good purpose-after all, a scam is a scam, but it has to be a scam and not some tool to extinguish any MLM that starts up with a new concept (and you would have to admit the license plate idea is new). I’ve eaten a hat before, that’s ok, just try to bring accurate info to the table-preferably without emotion or the lynch-mob mentality. No one here may actually do this MLM, but other’s will, including myself, and I haven’t been burned yet, nor have I heard of anyone else getting burned. IF they in fact DO blow it, then you definitely have “I told you so” information for the future and kudos to you if you do-just make sure it’s fact and not just opinion.

    Again, I’m not attacking your intelligence, I’m sure you are more knowledgeable and seasoned, I’ve invested time and money in this but have no intentions of misleading anyone-it’s a small world. I’m just not convinced that they are a scam.

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  56. You’re feeble, alleged history lesson about ‘pepsico’ is meaningless and irrelevant. Please post the known, verifiable outside sources of income that allow apparently many people to get paid and make this not a ponzi. I’m sure you did investigate that before jumping in right?

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  57. Entertained-

    I can only answer by scenerio, as I’m not a math major. I would think that a person obtaining a license plate that was registered with the Code Amber system, and tracked to a particular parking lot, would offer a greater trail than to not know where the vehicle was and would present no danger to the child-you don’t want to know where the abducter was? so, you can’t follow them? That is a “trail” and bounty hunters or law enforcement officials would consider that valuable information.

    anyway,

    I don’t want to plug this into an equation, because it is a variable and not a constant due changing values (i.e., future moves, etc.), and statistical data is imperative to analytical success, but that’s also why they have labs and field research because only plugging real-life scenarios into equations doesn’t bring about empirical data due to the very nature of our changing world. (look, I hurt my own head with that one) That being said, if I wanted to find a vehicle, and it left town, and someone found that license plate in another state, or city, and I could notify the collectors of that area that the vehicle was seen there on such-and-such a date, the odds of me finding it are significantly better than if I had NOTHING, and I don’t need to put that into an equation to figure it out-it’s common sense. They pay good money to get vehicles worth tens of thousands of dollars back, that alone would be a business.

    Look up crowdsourcing.

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  58. I’m sorry alasycia, it’s Sunday, and you are hurting my head, lol. It doesn’t matter whether you or I consider the information of value-only those who purchase that information. I also love your writing style, but maybe I just don’t get the point you are trying to make-my apologies.

    Then I’ll spell it out in simple language. For an mlm to be legal they must have customers – that is people who buy the product (the data base) and a propertion of them must be non member customers. NTC have been asked to demonstrate that they can verify that they do have these customers, or any customers for that matter. They have NOT given this information and until they do, there are red flags flying all over the place, because that means the members income comes from other members payments and THAT IS ILLEGAL.

    You say you have facts about NTC – please share them with us, with the supporting information.

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  59. Whip, I love a good snap! Let’s see what cooks up in the next few weeks or month, and re-analyze what Narc is up to. I would dedicate more time to this-you ladies and gentlemen are fantastic, and I appreciate the opportunity to joust with you. I have spent no time with my family today (sorry not meaning to be a cheap bow-out) and I have guests-I love the fact that you all stick to your guns and will be able to answer in more detail with a bit more time behind us…please accept my apologies until then.

    Ciao!

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  60. One point on the issue of child abduction. By the time the promoter of NTC sends in the number plate data to the company and it is entered on the data base, it will be out of date. A unsuspicious car driven by a child abducter, parked in a Mcdonalds on an interstate highway for 15 minutes, will be long gone by the time the NTC promoter has even reached his computer. By the time it is entered on the data base it could be one or two states away. The information collected by the NTC members is not sent to the police in real time. (The NTC member will have no idea that it could be any different from the other 9 car plates that he is taking down in order to earn his $$s and has no reason to rush home to post it – he may even spend half an hour eating his own McDonalds before leaving.)

    As it has been established that neither law enforcement nor the Amber Alert programme or its secondary programmes use NTC, how on earth can any information collected by NTC help them or Code Amber? Code Amber, IF they really are associated with NTC, will receive out of date information and may send the police on a wild goose chase, unless they make it quite clear that it is out of date. Law enforcement needs real time information to catch child abducters on the run. The owner info about a car is something they already have anyway.

    I am one hundred percent with Entertained on this issue. This is not a product that could possibly add any useful information to that which Law enforcement already have, in the case of a child abduction.

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  61. Really anonymous: You have to have the horse and the cart to sell to larger corporations, so you still have to have the data to sell, hence the people to gather the data,

    How about putting the cart before the horse?

    I would suggest that in order to make this not a ponzi, using your example, the people gathering the plates are investors trying to build a database to sell their novel product. And if the product is a success, the “investors” will then be compensated when there is money from customers to pay the initial investors.

    I wonder how many people would donate their time and efforts for a position in this company without a guarantee of return? Would they feel the same about the value of the data base that is so easily corrupted by inaccurate info?

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  62. Really anonymous: Whip, I love a good snap! Let’s see what cooks up in the next few weeks or month, and re-analyze what Narc is up to.
    Ciao!  

    It’s already too late. The question was what you found out in your own due diligence that you did before jumping into a scam. Your lack of a simple answer to that (after all, it would be righ t on the tip of your tongue already) proves you did none, nor have any proof it is not the ponzi that it is right now. and right now is even too late to try and make a ponzi ‘legit’.

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  63. RA,

    Thanks for the admission that you know nothing about the mathematics as to why the data from NTC is virtually worthless, or in the worst case, dangerous. Promoters of NTC rely on people not knowing the reality, much like you. They pitch something that seems plausible, but the underlying reality is different (exactly like ASD btw). You are spewing words with no meaning in your response, although you actually do touch on the central issue. You mention that the data changes over time, a “variable” in your terms. That’s precisely why the data ends up worthless! OK, so here goes…..YOUR child is abducted. By some incredibly long shot, the license plate of the getaway vehicle is noted, and somehow happens to be in the NTC database. Problem is, the car was spotted by a NarcThatCar Ponzi player 100 miles away from your home (and let’s just say by coincidence, 3 blocks from the home address of the owner of the car). Further, the car plate was entered 6 months ago into the NTC database. YOUR child’s life depends on the following answer. The authorities have limited resources, so YOU have to choose for them……search in the vicinity of the gas station, or search in the vicinity of the house 3 blocks away. Hope this helps clarify. The very real situation is that the NTC data can very well be very, very dangerous. I appreciate that you may not have the mathematical werewithal to understand the math, but it is real, and I hope that you at least understand the folley of NTC (but probably not). Even if you do not, hopefully at least others can think for themselves and avoid this illegal, and dangerous, pyramid scheme you are promoting.

    Really anonymous: Entertained-I can only answer by scenerio, as I’m not a math major. I would think that a person obtaining a license plate that was registered with the Code Amber system, and tracked to a particular parking lot, would offer a greater trail than to not know where the vehicle was and would present no danger to the child-you don’t want to know where the abducter was? so, you can’t follow them? That is a “trail” and bounty hunters or law enforcement officials would consider that valuable information.anyway,I don’t want to plug this into an equation, because it is a variable and not a constant due changing values (i.e., future moves, etc.), and statistical data is imperative to analytical success, but that’s also why they have labs and field research because only plugging real-life scenarios into equations doesn’t bring about empirical data due to the very nature of our changing world. (look, I hurt my own head with that one) That being said, if I wanted to find a vehicle, and it left town, and someone found that license plate in another state, or city, and I could notify the collectors of that area that the vehicle was seen there on such-and-such a date, the odds of me finding it are significantly better than if I had NOTHING, and I don’t need to put that into an equation to figure it out-it’s common sense. They pay good money to get vehicles worth tens of thousands of dollars back, that alone would be a business. Look up crowdsourcing.  (Quote)

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  64. You fellow haters of free enterprise as well as the media always want to make a big deal out of innuendo and unsubstantiated rumor. If a person makes a statement out of ignorance you haters love to rub it in their face and then make a 15 minute news production out of pure lies. Narc Technologies is a perfectly legal as well as ethical company. The problem with your article is that you don’t have your ducks in a row. Narc isn’t involved with the Secondary Amber Alert System, however rather the CODE AMBER NEWS SERVICE which anyone can see displayed right on their web site. Check it out for yourselves, http://www.narcthatcar.com. I don’t doubt that there has been someone out there in the ranks of our team members that have mistakenly tied Narc to the wrong entity but that still doesn’t change the FACTS and it doesn’t excuse your article of balderdash. If you’re that anxious to make a “buck” selling trash, call me and I’ll introduce you to an amazing opportunity that you can do so without having to fall in the sewer! By the way, I’ve received a check and it was also REAL!

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  65. Rick Hawkins: If a person makes a statement out of ignorance you haters love to rub it in their face and then make a 15 minute news production out of pure lies.

    Rick,

    Why are people who purport to provide Narc That Car “training” making statements out of ignorance?

    Rick Hawkins: The problem with your article is that you don’t have your ducks in a row. Narc isn’t involved with the Secondary Amber Alert System, however rather the CODE AMBER NEWS SERVICE

    I now see that Narc That Car has removed the reference to AMBER Alert in its video. I’ll do a story on that.

    Do you know if the Justice Department or the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children asked Narc That Car to remove the AMBER Alert reference?

    And do you know if Narc That Car is able to determine how much money it received as a result of its own reference to AMBER Alert and the repeated (and continuing) references by its promoters to AMBER Alert?

    Did Narc That Car send an email to all members informing them that the AMBER Alert reference had been removed and instructing all members to stop using AMBER Alert’s name?

    Rick Hawkins: I don’t doubt that there has been someone out there in the ranks of our team members that have mistakenly tied Narc to the wrong entity but that still doesn’t change the FACTS and it doesn’t excuse your article of balderdash.

    Why would they not tie it to the wrong entity when Narc That Car itself was using AMBER Alert’s name?

    This Blog contacted both the Justice Department and the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children to determine if Narc That Car was affiliated with AMBER Alert. The answer was no.

    Balderdash? Hardly.

    Patrick

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  66. Quick note:

    Story on Narc That Car’s removal of AMBER Alert’s name from a video pitch:

    http://patrickpretty.com/2010/02/16/narc-that-car-removes-reference-to-amber-alert-in-sales-video-after-justice-department-denied-link-to-mlm-program/

    Patrick

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  67. Again your argument doesn’t hold water. Code Amber News Service is an entirely different organization than the one you rant about. As I said, visit their web site and view what’s displayed there yourself. It only takes a couple of seconds to do that. You’ll see the Code Amber News Service ticker at the bottom of the page.

    I’m certain that all people make blunders and errors and speak things that they’d like to retract. I KNOW you’ve done the same. So, that “ignorance” thing is a really big club Patrick. I respect your rights to free press and speech as well as my own. However, don’t throw gas on something that you purport and publish for your own self-exhalation. You profess to be a network marketing “hater” and thus make war on anyone or anything that is associated with your own personal interpretation and/or understandings. None of that changes the real facts and truth.

    Let’s keep this simple. Here’s a quote I love that I’ll close with. It’s completely self explanatory:

    “Some people are just too smart to take a risk so they stay safe, secure, and broke.”

    Rick

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  68. Rick Hawkins: Again your argument doesn’t hold water. Code Amber News Service is an entirely different organization than the one you rant about. As I said, visit their web site and view what’s displayed there yourself. It only takes a couple of seconds to do that.

    Rick,

    Do you somehow not know that Narc That Car referenced BOTH AMBER Alert and Code Amber, that one NTC promoter after another tied AMBER Alert to NTC, that NTC promoters started .org domains using AMBER Alert’s name and positioning NTC as a charity (including appeals such as “Help us”) — and that both the Department of Justice AND the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, which administer AMBER Alert, denied any affiliation with NTC?

    Do you not know that the sales pitches for NTC got so impossibly butchered that one rep issued an appeal to help AMBER Alert find repossessed cars?

    Rick Hawkins: “Some people are just too smart to take a risk so they stay safe, secure, and broke.”

    And some people are so concerned about not being broke that they start .orgs and tell people that joining Narc That Car is like giving money to a charity — while they’re trying to pocket commissions by leeching off the AMBER Alert program, a national treasure named after a 9-year-old girl who was riding her bicycle, abducted and brutally murdered.

    Patrick

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  69. Rick, since NarcThatCar started to promote itself through MLM, there have been lots and lots of adverts, in various forms, including promotional videos that have stated quite categorically that NTC’s was tied up with Amber ALERT, even after the DOJ and NCMED denied the relationship. It was one of the key factors used to induce to people join NTC as they would be supporting a good cause as well as earning money. It was untrue. Furthermore, the national up to date data bases used by Amber Alert have little to compare with anything that NTC could even think of producing.

    The relationship between NTC and Code Amber is also unclear.

    The current video says that NTC CAN be used by

    Law Enforcement Agencies
    Government Agencies
    Missing Persons
    Code Amber

    It doesnt clarify if it is actually being used by them (and why a missing person would use it is beyond me. lol) What we do know is that the DOJ and other missing persons related Government Agencies are not using them, because they have stated as much. We have not, as far as I am aware, received any clarification from Code Amber either, though I may be wrong here.

    So all we have is a series of misleading insinuations from NTC and their promoters.

    I know they say that, when you cant answer questions with verified data, the best form of defence is attack – and you are certainly doing a good job trying to discredit Patrick and other posters – but you have yet to provide any verified proof of your claims . It is highly unlikely that many of the posters here would join a scheme like this, but there are many readers who come here to find out what NTC is all about, as Patrick’s blog frequently shows up on Google when one is looking for a scheme by name. What they must make of this lack of information and series of personal insults by promoters of NTC is anybody’s guess!

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  70. Patrick

    I’d like to make certain that my “personal” opinions aren’t confused. My personal view about Amber Alert and Code Amber are both the same. They are excellent organizations which assist our law enforcement establishments across the country. I wholeheartedly support them and their efforts. I personally also support the constitutional right of free speech and press whether I agree or disagree. I appreciate the opportunity to express myself freely and also that you print those views as I originally wrote them, unaltered.

    My debate isn’t about whether someone did or didn’t say the wrong thing about the Amber Alert Service. I certainly can’t speculate what someone else thinks or prompts their personal decisions. What I DO know is that this is a very legal and legitimate business, one of many who all experience a few growing pains. My debate is with anyone who attacks a company or business or person with the intent to cause undue harm for profit. That would be you. I mean we get it….you hate network marketing…that’s the way you make your living…..the exact same thing you accuse Narc of doing….next subject.

    As was once said before: “It is finished!”

    Rick

    Alasycia,

    Thanks for your reply & comments. You said “but you have yet to provide any verified proof of your claims”. However you must have missed this in my previous emails? Simply go to http://www.narcthatcar.com and you can see the Code Amber Ticker and Logo right on their web site. Anyone could interpret that in almost anyway they desire. I nor you can be responsible for someone else and their misinterpretation or rightful interpretation.

    So, I guess the best thing is just to agree to disagree. My best….

    Rick

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  71. Promotional material on a website is hardly the same thing as independently verified information.

    Sadly, there are far too many unscrupulous businesses on the internet who do use unauthorised company or organization logos. So the presence of a logo is not authentication of an association between two organisations. Don’t forget that, previously, NTC was using the AMBER Alert name without any authorization whatsoever.

    Equally, it is very presumptious to assume that people write here with the intent to cause undue harm for profit. especially when that couldnt be further from the truth. The only thing that people stand to gain is the possibility that there are a few less victims falling for a scam. Unless NTC can produce some plausible verification of their claims, I would suggest that any harm done to it is very much due

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