BULLETIN: Montana Declares ACN Inc. A ‘Pyramid Scheme’; Cease-And-Desist Order Issued Amid Allegations Deck Is Stacked Against MLM Participants

BULLETIN: ACN Inc., a North Carolina-based multilevel-marketing company that bills itself “The World’s Largest Direct Seller of Telecommunication Services,” has been accused by the state of Montana of operating a pyramid scheme.

Monica J. Lindeen, Montana’s Commissioner of Securities and Insurance, has issued a cease-and-desist order against ACN and a Notice of Proposed Agency Action.

“Pyramid schemes are immensely profitable to a few individuals at the top and a complete loss for almost everyone else,” Lindeen said. “The actions against ACN and its officers seek to shut down the company’s alleged unlawful operation before more people lose their hard-earned money.”

Also named in the actions were Gregory Provenzano, Robert Stevanovski, Anthony Cupisz and Michael Cupisz, all officers and founders of ACN, according to Lindeen’s office.

“[A]n overwhelming portion of revenues earned by ACN representatives was derived from participants who must personally buy a telephone service that does not work in many parts of Montana to become managers or recruit new participants into the program,” Lindeen’s office said.

Investigators said the odds of making any money in ACN were overwhelmingly against participants.

“In 2008, ACN recruited 91 Montana participants who paid approximately $61,741.69 to be a part of the program,” Lindeen’s office said. “Only two of the participants made any money, with one participant making $696 and the other making $700.”

In the whole of 2009, according to investigators, Montana-based reps paid ACN nearly $239,000 to be a part of the program. The money came from more than 300 participants.

“ACN’s records indicate a mere $896.86 was paid out in compensation to these participants,” Lindeen’s office said.

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48 Responses to “BULLETIN: Montana Declares ACN Inc. A ‘Pyramid Scheme’; Cease-And-Desist Order Issued Amid Allegations Deck Is Stacked Against MLM Participants”

  1. Get the facts before you try to be a reporter. You have zero clue about what you are talking about. Your math is miles off. T Porter

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  2. And your version is?

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  3. Get the facts before you try to be a reporter. You have zero clue about what you are talking about. Your math is miles off. T Porter

    The “math” is from a direct quotation by the state in its news release. If you’d like to make a point of clarification or correction, please do.

    Patrick

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  4. Unfortunately for the state of Montana, which has a bad reputation for being anti-business based on its state regulations, it has a bad insurance commissioner. Lindeen also did to Fortune High tech earlier this year. The press releases were not accurate, but sure grabbed headlines. Case in point. Her office released a statement that FHT settled in the millions. The actual number was around 100,000. Of course, the ACN case will probably end in a settlement as well. Businesses know that Governments do a shakedown every once in a while. BP, Goldman Sachs, Microsoft, Dell, and Intel are some of the better known brands that have been through this.

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  5. been running a biz in MT for almost a decade> They’re fair as I’ve ran businesses in other states! You want to distort numbers and try to disregaurd facts in order to justify why you haven’t been part of the internet that’s making money… I would guess that you are broke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get a mentor in your life that understands things that you clearly don’t! Attraction needs more than guidence, but some financial IQ (with, PLESASE NO REPRECUSSIONS ON THEM) would be grounds for having more of an intelligent comversation!!!!!!! I pay attention to the regs.. and i Protect the law!!!

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  6. Gee,

    so what you’re saying is that FHTM and the company’s founders, Thomas Mills and Paul Orberson, DIDN’T agree to a pay a $100,000 fine while while Dianne Graber, an FHTM representative from Billings, DIDN’T agree to pay a $5,000 fine and Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing DIDN’T agree to refund up to $840,000 to more than 3,400 Montana participants who paid $299 to join the marketing program and that the company will NOT contribute $50,000 to the Investor Protection Trust, a nonprofit organization that provides investor education in Montana.

    Gee, and there I was believing the word of a highly respected States’ Attorney General and thinking the defendant might have been fibbing just a little.

    But now I’m not so sure.

    Who to believe??? who to believe ???

    “Attraction Marketing” or the Montana Attorney General ??

    The Montana Attorney General or “Attraction Marketing”???

    Holy Occams’ razor, Batman.

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  7. I did laugh when I read that the individuals were selling phones that wouldn’t work in Montana! Pretty hard to justify that in your business plan, I should think.

    I have a summary of the previous Government lawsuits against ACN here:

    http://www.bizop.ca/blog2/acn/

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  8. Holy Occams’ razor, Batman.

    Appreciate the line, LRM — and also the details on the FHTM settlement.

    The company says it disagrees with the “headline” that it has paid $1 million to settle this matter.” It’s a curious form of splitting hairs because the settlement docs are public information that lay out the details. One requirement was that the company produce a letter of credit satisfactory to address $840,000 in potential refunds to Montana residents. The company’s total exposure appears to have been $995,000 — or almost $1 million — with the fines, refund pool and other costs factored in.

    I just don’t see what FHTM gains by splitting hairs in this fashion.

    Beyond that, this form of splitting hairs institutionalizes the “us vs. them” mentality in the MLM sphere, which only subjects aficionados and the industry to more scrutiny. The “them,” by necessity, is cast as a beast, and the discussions get cast as a form of good vs. evil.

    I’ll never understand the lack of PR savvy exhibited by some MLMers, especially the ones inclined to dial up the drama even more by introducing conspiracy theories. (Examples: the government stole AdSurfDaily’s $80 million, invested it and is earning billions in interest; “Satan” sent the troops to ASD.)

    On the subject of ACN, we have a pyramid allegation laid out by one of the U.S. states. Two (presumptive) supporters of ACN came to this board. One of them attacked the messenger with a flying elbow; the other attacked the state, suggesting a “shakedown” of business in general is under way.

    Neither approach does anything to help ACN. One can argue rationally that it actually hurts ACN because the approaches play directly into the stereotypes that MLM is dominated by:

    * folks who deflect from the “real” issue — in this case, the pyramid allegation.

    * folks who complain that neither the media nor the state can be trusted to get things “right” — but then do not provide facts to back up their claims.

    * folks who claim that actions filed against MLMs are political prosecutions.

    * folks who engage in chronic name-dropping.

    In this case, ACN is the respondent to a pyramid allegation in Montana — but we hear that a government “shakedown” of business in general has been under way, sucking in BP, Goldman Sachs, Microsoft, Dell, and Intel.

    In my view, that argument alone hurts efforts to recruit ACN members to sell the company’s services because lots of people believe the actions against the companies cited in Attraction Marketing’s post were entirely appropriate. Such folks might be put off by the “shakedown” claim and therefore reluctant to join ACN.

    What’s the message — pity ACN because it is being strong-armed by a duly elected state auditor?

    Or is the message that ACN is a “victim” like BP, Goldman Sachs and the others?

    On a side note, in Montana’s case against FHTM, the state claimed that reps were engaged in some name-dropping — i.e, using the names of other companies potentially in inappropriate ways.

    The allegation spoke to one of the key deceptions practiced by many people in the MLM universe — the suggestion that prominent, well-known companies have vetted the MLMs and established partnerships with them.

    Montana contacted a number of prominent companies, including GE, Home Depot and Dish Network to establish the nature of purported partnerships/business relationships.

    For its part, GE thanked the state for “bringing the inappropriate use of the GE trademark to our attention.”

    Home Depot said it did not appear to “have a partnership or sales agreement with Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing.”

    Dish Network said FHTM was not a “partner,” but rather “a third party independent contractor” authorized to sell the service.

    These contacts occurred because of claims made by a FHTM affiliate who appears not to have understood the program she was selling.

    Another rep, according to the allegations, told prospects they “don’t have to understand how it all works; what you’ve got to understand is that it does work.”

    It is little wonder that the state stepped in amid these circumstances and that the company agreed to provide training “on the sale of products and the proper way for IRs to introduce and explain the FHTM business model.”

    Patrick

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  9. Neither approach does anything to help ACN. One can argue rationally that it actually hurts ACN

    Which is why blogs such as this perform such an important public service by providing a forum which allows “them” to convict themselves with their own words.

    As I see it, all “naysayers” are required to push the right buttons, then stand back and watch as fraud supporters are hoist on their own petard.

    I am in no doubt that, as we speak, there exists a band of FHTM supporters giving themselves collective high fives and saying things such as “we showed ’em” and “I told him a thing or two” while indulging in a paper cup or two of their favourite Kool-Aid.

    I am also in no doubt the great majority of readers recognize the above mentioned posts for what they are and dismiss their content out of hand.

    The majority may be silent, but by far the greatest number of them are not stupid.

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  10. Does anyone know the odds of making real money with ACN? I know the company can show some real hot shots, but what I want to know is how many people are making $25K a month?

    And how long would it really take to earn that kind of money?

    I know people who have joined with the dream of quitting their job within the next 3 months, only to drop out in 6.

    I also know a successful insurance agent that is so excited about this opportunity, that he is focussing most all of his attention one ACN. He seems to think that this will be his big money bag at the end of the rainbow.

    Please talk to me?

    Gene

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  11. You have to ask yourself, how are you going to make money on selling video phones that are only good calling someone else who has a video phone, then, how do you actually make any money. You can only make any money recruiting and that’s what makes it a pyramid. This is why they were caught.

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  12. @WHIP:

    Gee, I think you are right. Maybe ACN should give up selling video phones, since, as you put it “how are you going to make money on selling video phones that are only good calling someone else who has a video phone”.

    Some may look at that as a challenge, others may look at it as an opportunity. Since every time you sell one phone, it will naturally lead to 2, which could lead to 4, which might lead to 8, etc….sounds like a pretty sound method of acquiring customers.

    Only time will tell. Since they are 18 years old (not 18 months old), and since they are endorsed by Donald Trump, and since they are going to be on a 2-HR NBC primetime reality TV show talking about the legitimacy and credibility of the direct sales industry, it’s a pretty safe you are in for a big disappointment if you are hoping the company gets shut down.

    By the way,

    Did you know that the video phone is the same thing as Vonage? Only better.

    Did you know that Video phone does something that Skype can’t? Actually have a QUALITY video conversation.

    Did you know that ACN rewards people who think of this as a LONG-TERM business? Sorry to the folks who bought the “lottery ticket” thinking they would get rich by convincing a couple of their broke-minded friends to do the business and were shocked and dismayed to find that their broke friends didn’t do the things required to be successful. So they quit. Bummer. Maybe that is what put them in their particular predicament in the first place.

    The business isn’t easy, which is why many people fail. Did you know hat since the year 2000 only 2 percent of small businesses in America have lasted. That’s a pretty small percentage wouldn’t you say?

    Since 2 of 91 people in Montana made money, I’d say the percentages are right in line with traditional business. Stop villianizing MLM or ACN. It isn’t about ACN…it’s about the person who signs on the dotted line.

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  13. MONICA J. LINDEEN NEEDS TO GET HER FACTS STRAIGHT AND OBVIOUSLY DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THE ACN BUSINESS.PLAN. THE REPS ARE INDEPENDENT BUSINESS PEOPLE RUNNING THEIR OWN BUSINESSES. SHE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND HAVING CORRECT NUMBERS AND JUST LIKE THE BO ADMINISTRATION HAS THAT DEMOCRAT MENTALITY—JUST DAZZLE ‘EM WITH ERRONEOUS INFORMATION. DO WE NEED PEOPLE LIKE THIS AS OUR PUBLIC SERVANTS?

    INCIDENTALLY, MY VIDEO PHONE WORKS BEAUTIFULLY FOR VOIP LOCAL AND LONG DISTANCE.

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  14. Sorry Tony….skype has already been here for a while now and is FREE. Nice try at selling garbage that doesn’t work though.

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  15. MONICA J. LINDEEN NEEDS TO GET HER FACTS STRAIGHT

    MARA8V92,

    What facts does the auditor have wrong?

    OBVIOUSLY DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THE ACN BUSINESS.PLAN.

    Why doesn’t the auditor understand the business plan? What is she missing? Why is she missing it? How is it “obvious” that she “doesn’t understand” the business plan?

    JUST LIKE THE BO ADMINISTRATION HAS THAT DEMOCRAT MENTALITY

    Hope you don’t have many Dems in your downline. Is it part of your marketing strategy to alienate as many Dems as possible on the theory that it somehow makes ACN look good or that it somehow is advantageous to have only people who agree with your political philosophy in your downline?

    Any plans to purge folks who have that “DEMOCRATIC MENTALITY” from your downline — or is it OK to have that “MENTALITY” if they have the requisite cash?

    DO WE NEED PEOPLE LIKE THIS AS OUR PUBLIC SERVANTS?

    If a Republican auditor or AG moves against an MLM, does that make the office-holder a miserable public servant and a person who lacks the MENTALITY to UNDERSTAND the MLM’s business plan?

    If a Dem moves against an MLM, does that make the office-holder a miserable public servant?

    Patrick

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  16. YEP PATRICK, MONICA AS COMMISSIONER DOESN’T HAVE HER FACTS CORRECT RESULTING IN WRONG NUMBERS. AS AUDITOR SHE NEEDS TO ANALYZE, VERIFY, CONFIRM, TEST, OBSERVE AND DOCUMENT, AMONG OTHER THINGS THE SITUATION BEFORE MAKING CHARGES. AS I SAID, MORE HOMEWORK NEEDS TO BE DONE SO SHE UNDERSTANDS THE ACM MLM PLAN.

    SORRY PATRICK, I DON’T HAVE A DOWNLINE, SO DON’T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT! BUT THE MISINFORMATION AND NUMBERS THAT COME FROM BO ON DOWN ARE ILLUSTRATIVE OF THE MENTALITY I REFERRED TO.

    MARA

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  17. And yet, you must yell with no evidence to prove they are wrong. Shocking! Put up some facts to dispute what has been reported please.
    ACNers seem to lack that no matter where they post.

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  18. A.C.N may have also gotten in trouble for misleading some people. I know FHTM was slapped for that too. There is a website called http://www.scam.com with an entire thread about A.C.N. There is also a website called [URL gently deleted by Admin] that I found on yahoo that exposes some lies. The guy is in a competing company who owns that site but he exposes some of the lies of A.C.N.

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  19. I was with ACN for four years in the late 90’s and left to become more sucessful with another company. However, people are entitled to make a business decision to join and spend their $500. That is their choice.
    Although fairly successful, I PERSONALLY CHOSE TO LEAVE because I couldn’t see the average person spending that kind of money with a very low chance of making a serious income. I also didn’t like the fact that your $500 gets split by the 7 people about you in the “pyramid chain”
    I got involved in an honest company where anyone can try out a business with no selling, inventory or risk and could spend less than $30 refundable dollars to see if the business is right for them. I did learn a lot for ACN (some good, some bad) and am stronger for it today. I invite anyone to contact me for advice before jumping into a home-based business for advice or submit your questions at my site at [gently deleted by Admin]

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  20. Odd’s… impossible.. everybody’s success or lack of success is based on their efforts and the people they know.. I call it the human factor. I don’t have much faith in people… that doesn’t mean it is impossible to find a few good ones that can produce good money for themselves and good money for you.

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  21. MARA8V92,What facts does the auditor have wrong?Why doesn’t the auditor understand the business plan? What is she missing? Why is she missing it? How is it “obvious” that she “doesn’t understand” the business plan?Hope you don’t have many Dems in your downline. Is it part of your marketing strategy to alienate as many Dems as possible on the theory that it somehow makes ACN look good or that it somehow is advantageous to have only people who agree with your political philosophy in your downline?Any plans to purge folks who have that “DEMOCRATIC MENTALITY” from your downline — or is it OK to have that “MENTALITY” if they have the requisite cash?If a Republican auditor or AG moves against an MLM, does that make the office-holder a miserable public servant and a person who lacks the MENTALITY to UNDERSTAND the MLM’s business plan?If a Dem moves against an MLM, does that make the office-holder a miserable public servant?Patrick  (Quote)

    well.. if 91 people spend $499 that doesn’t = $61,741.69 and if it does, I want to move to Montana!

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  22. I think ACN’s answer to the Montana complaint says it best:

    “At the core of ACN’s integrity as a network marketing company is the bedrock principle that compensation paid to ACN independent representatives is based on the acquisition of customers. No compensation is ever paid unless customers are acquired.”

    If I recruited 100 people into my ACN business today (which means they all paid their $499.00 to join the business), ACN will pay me $00.00 (nothing).

    Why is that “fact” so difficult to comprehend and understand? When I tell many people this fact (people who say they are MLM pros) they laugh at ACN opportunity and say “no thanks”. They say “no-thanks” because they are use to MLMs that pay based on recruiting – which ACN does not (because that is illegal).

    As for people not making money – if you acquire customers and teach your team to acquire customers you will make money as outlined by the ACN compensation plan.I personally have 33 customer points (36 when one of my Sprint customers gets paid and calls me back to add 4 more lines to her plan) – the goal is 50.

    You have to “do ALL the work” to see the financial results with ACN’s opportunity – (period)

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  23. Montana got $50,000.00 from FHTM for “investor education”. They should use some of those funds to put up a site that teaches people how to identify legitimate MLMs.

    I have a presentation that I utilize to show people (based on the Amway FTC case) precisely what a legitimate MLM looks like. I showed it to some FHTM reps when the news broke regarding their shut-down in Montana (and they laughed).

    After Montana handed down their settlement, they read the settlement and compared it to what I had showed them in my presentation – two of them called me back and apologized. One of them is now an ACN customer (DirecTV, Digital Phone (Voip) and 2 ATT Cell Phone Upgrades)

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  24. Your own reps state otherwise on scam dot com
    And skype is still free

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  25. I deal only in facts (not what other people say based on miss-information and lack of understanding and common sense). That’s why I know how to identify legitimate MLM vs illegitimate.

    And the Skype argument is tired and overplayed. That’s like saying we should all still be driving “model-Ts”. My 74 yr old mother has no idea how to use skype. But it took her about 5 -mins to learn her video phone.

    Innovation sir (maam) – innovation. That’s the key to continued economic growth.

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  26. Here we go again playing “round and round the mulberry bush” when the “facts” Success Train likes so much say:

    1) FHTM and/or its’ office bearers coughed up a 100 THOUSAND dollar fine

    2) one of its’ distributors coughed up a 5 THOUSAND dollar fine

    3) FHTM agreed to cough up as much as 840 THOUSAND dollars in refunds

    4) FHTM agreed to pay 50 THOUSAND dollars into an education fund.

    Everything else is just froth and bubbles in an attempt to rationalize, justify and lay off blame.

    How’s that for “only dealing in facts” Mr Train???

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  27. You are correct, those are the facts in the FHTM Case. And I haven’t attempted to “layoff” any blame. So what’s your point – and is it relevant as it relates to MLM law in Montana?

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  28. The Montana judgement against FHTM was a costly one for them and is a good example of what can happen to a less than ethical MLM.

    And incidentally, the technologically literate members in our family have the latest stuff in communication technology and have always managed to communicate successfully with a variety of free or economic Voip systems and have never felt the desire to resort to an overpriced MLM for their needs. They advise and set up the systems for the elderly members of the family and would never recommend a system that has anything to do with selling opportunities. These people have already worked hard during their lives to have what they have and noone in their right mind would try to sell a “busines opp” to an elderly lady who cant even manage a computer. Grandma in our family cant even figure out her cell phone but with a little help she does get to talk to her grandkids on Skype!

    Grandma’s should not be the target market for these opps and if anyone feels that they are, they are showing their lack of respect for their elders.

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  29. LOL – I’m amazed at the “logic” behind some of these arguments.

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  30. Looks like Democrat Lindeen got her office to get the ACN facts straight and her order was evaporated. MT Auditors office needs a 101 course in fact gathering instead of listening to “a gathering of people”.

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  31. MARA8V92: Looks like Democrat Lindeen got her office to get the ACN facts straight and her order was evaporated.MT Auditors office needs a 101 course in fact gathering instead of listening to “a gathering of people”.

    What on earth are you talking about ???

    The order didn’t “evaporate” as you put it.

    1) FHTM and/or its’ office bearers coughed up a 100 THOUSAND dollar fine

    2) one of its’ distributors coughed up a 5 THOUSAND dollar fine

    3) FHTM agreed to cough up as much as 840 THOUSAND dollars in refunds

    4) FHTM agreed to pay 50 THOUSAND dollars into an education fund.

    5) FHTM “ceased and desisted” operating in the way the order described and can continue to operate.

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  32. A court order against them, several very large fines and obeying a “cease and disist” order IS evaporating in MLM/Pyramid-speak.

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  33. I am an Indepedent Rep for ACN, and just received this letter from the company. I have been involved in ACN 6 years. Its ok that some people don’t like MLM, or network marketing. That is their choice. But to suggest what ACN does it illegal is silly. ACN has a 17 year track record in the United States and does business in 21 countries. Montana was mistaken with their original assessment of ACN. And ACN, unlike some other MLMs in Montana, did not have to pay any fines whatsoever. They didn’t do anything against the law! What’s sad is the media and others on websites like this jump to conclusions without giving ACN any right to defend themselves first. Again, you may or may not like our business model, but that does not make it against the law or unethical just because you don’t like it!!!

    Dear Montana ACN Representative,

    Thank you for your continued support and patience as ACN worked tirelessly to resolve the issue with the Montana Securities and Insurance Commissioner’s Office. We had full confidence that these misunderstandings would reach a favorable resolution, and we are happy to report that on Monday, September 13, 2010, the cease and desist order against ACN was lifted. As a result, you may now resume business as usual.

    At ACN, our integrity is at the forefront of every decision we make, and our reputation of being a premier direct seller is based on that company-wide commitment to integrity. It’s a reputation we don’t take lightly, and one we will always fight vigilantly to protect. We certainly appreciate your patience during this time and wish you all the best as you continue building your ACN business.

    Sincerely,

    Greg Provenzano

    ACN President and Co-Founder

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  34. Peddle your lame wares elsewhere. No one wants a useless video phone that has very little area coverage and skype is free as has been pointed out to you scammers for quite awhile now.

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  35. JR: What’s sad is the media and others on websites like this jump to conclusions without giving ACN any right to defend themselves first.

    JR,

    The “media” reported the allegations. That’s what the “media” does.

    If you looked at the comments above, you will see that someone speaking in support of ACN tried to turn this into a conspiracy by a Democratic state auditor, saying the probe was the byproduct of the “DEMOCRATIC MENTALITY.”

    MLM has both an image and a reputation problem because of such claims, which alienate people in a big way. The ACN defender referenced above apparently also had the need to belittle the governor of Montana, also a Democrat.

    Personally, I would not join ACN on that basis alone, even if the company ended up passing muster with Montana — and I’m a Republican. What should Dem members of ACN do now? Become Republicans because of the purported “DEMOCRATIC MENTALITY” that led to the probe?

    MLM creates its own critics, JR. Scams are hurting the United States to its core. If you look here, you’ll see that an MPD Today affiliate ain’t so hot on those terrible Dems, either. (Look near the bottom of the post if you don’t have the time to read the whole thing):

    http://patrickpretty.com/2010/09/11/editorial-animated-attack-on-obama-goes-missing-from-mpb-today-affiliates-sales-arsenal-pp-blog-declines-request-from-affiliates-mlm-sponsor-to-remove-story-that-describes-bizarre-sales-pitch-pa/

    Any poster is welcome here to speak out in support of a company. They are entitled to hold an opinion, even one that others might deem offensive.

    They are not entitled to be taken seriously, however, if they believe the best “defense” is a good conspiracy theory that alienates the very people they solicit to become customers and downline members.

    I’ve seen it enough times now that it strikes me as a pathology. It does not surprise me at all that MLM critics can become virulent — not when the the “DEMOCRATIC MENTALITY” is purported to be the reason Montana wanted to take a look at ACN and the President of the United States and the Secretary of State — both of whom happen to be Dems — are depicted as Nazis to sell MPB Today’s MLM program.

    Patrick

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  36. JR: Montana was mistaken with their original assessment of ACN. And ACN, unlike some other MLMs in Montana, did not have to pay any fines whatsoever. They didn’t do anything against the law!

    Of course you have proof the order was lifted because it was filed in error, don’t you ???

    Otherwise those among us with slightly less trusting natures might come to the conclusion the order was lifted because all fines and penalties were paid and the FHTM business practices modified so as to come into compliance.

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  37. I just watched the video done on WCNC News website and they said “Montana has set a hearing in the case for October 25.”

    I do not believe ACN is back in business in Montana, if so I think the Montana State Auditor’s website and ACN’s website would post something on their website.

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  38. Are u kidding me! According to wcnc Charlotte the state of Montana reported that ACN wasnt required to “ceist and desist” doing business in Montana when that order was issued. So that implies that ACN was never out of business in Montana to begin with – h

    Dan: I just watched the video done on WCNC News website and they said “Montana has set a hearing in the case for October 25.”I do not believe ACN is back in business in Montana, if so I think the Montana State Auditor’s website and ACN’s website would post something on their website.

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  39. Success Train: Are u kidding me! According to wcnc Charlotte the state of Montana reported that ACN wasnt required to “ceist and desist” doing business in Montana when that order was issued. So that implies that ACN was never out of business in Montana to begin with – h

    It comes down to an understanding of exactly what the term “cease and desist” means and exactly how the “cease and desist” process works.

    IOW, ACN was told to “cease and desist” carrying out the specific behaviour identified in the “cease and desist” notice.

    Any decision to stop operating in Montana was made by ACN itself, and NOT by order of the Montana Authorities.

    Thus the quote attributed to Montanas’ Deputy Securities Commissioner, Lynne Egan “the order never prohibited ACN from doing business in Montana but put the company on notice to abide by Montana law”

    The choice to interpret the C & D order in that way was made by ACN and/or its’ legal advisers.

    As well, the notice was actually a “Cease and Desist Order AND NOTICE OF PROPOSED AGENCY ACTION”

    Action/s which the Charlotte Observer article reports that Montana authorities intend to continue to pursue.

    I hesitate to use Wikipedia as a source, but its’ explanation of what constitutes a “cease and desist” order may help clarify the matter:

    “A cease and desist (also called C & D) is an order or request to halt an activity (cease) and not to take it up again later (desist); or else face legal action. The recipient of the cease-and-desist may be an individual or an organization.

    The term is used in two different contexts. A cease-and-desist order can be issued by a judge or government authority, and has a well-defined legal meaning. In contrast, a cease-and-desist letter can be sent by anyone, although typically they are drafted by a lawyer.
    Court order

    A judge may issue a cease-and-desist order with the intent to halt an illegal activity. This prohibition is sometimes used as the outcome of a trial, in which case it is a permanent injunction against the activity. It can also be used as an emergency measure to prevent possibly irreparable harm, in which case it takes the form of a temporary injunction. An injunction against speech issued before it occurs (e.g. preventing a pending publication) is called prior restraint.
    [edit] Use by administrative agencies

    Many government administrative agencies also have the ability to issue cease-and-desist orders and frequently use them to halt the sale of unregistered or fraudulent securities, to halt banking practices that would possibly be dangerous to institutions and to enforce licensing statutes. These orders usually specify a period of time for the recipient of the order to request a hearing. If a hearing is not requested by the recipient in the given time, the cease-and-desist order becomes final and the agency has the ability to enforce its order in a court of law”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist

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  40. The scammers just prove with each post that recruiting is the only thing going on and there really is no ‘product’ to make money on. That’s why they keep crying.

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  41. littleroundman:
    It comes down to an understanding of exactly what the term “cease and desist” means and exactly how the “cease and desist” process works.IOW, ACN was told to “cease and desist” carrying out the specific behaviour identified in the “cease and desist” notice.Any decision to stop operating in Montana was made by ACN itself, and NOT by order of the Montana Authorities.Thus the quote attributed to Montanas’ Deputy Securities Commissioner, Lynne Egan “the order never prohibited ACN from doing business in Montana but put the company on notice to abide by Montana law”The choice to interpret the C & D order in that way was made by ACN and/or its’ legal advisers.As well, the notice was actually a “Cease and Desist Order AND NOTICE OF PROPOSED AGENCY ACTION”
    Action/s which the Charlotte Observer article reports thatMontana authorities intend to continue to pursue.I hesitate to use Wikipedia as a source, but its’ explanation of what constitutes a “cease and desist” order may help clarify the matter:“A cease and desist (also called C & D) is an order or request to halt an activity (cease) and not to take it up again later (desist); or else face legal action. The recipient of the cease-and-desist may be an individual or an organization.The term is used in two different contexts. A cease-and-desist order can be issued by a judge or government authority, and has a well-defined legal meaning. In contrast, a cease-and-desist letter can be sent by anyone, although typically they are drafted by a lawyer.
    Court orderA judge may issue a cease-and-desist order with the intent to halt an illegal activity. This prohibition is sometimes used as the outcome of a trial, in which case it is a permanent injunction against the activity. It can also be used as an emergency measure to prevent possibly irreparable harm, in which case it takes the form of a temporary injunction. An injunction against speech issued before it occurs (e.g. preventing a pending publication) is called prior restraint.
    [edit] Use by administrative agenciesMany government administrative agencies also have the ability to issue cease-and-desist orders and frequently use them to halt the sale of unregistered or fraudulent securities, to halt banking practices that would possibly be dangerous to institutions and to enforce licensing statutes. These orders usually specify a period of time for the recipient of the order to request a hearing. If a hearing is not requested by the recipient in the given time, the cease-and-desist order becomes final and the agency has the ability to enforce its order in a court of law”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist

    So, why did Montana drop the order….. and they dropped the order with no conditions placed on ACN? Let’s keep it simple shall we :)

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  42. Success Train: Let’s keep it simple shall we

    That, my friend, is EXACTLY why internet fraud flourishes and what ensures it’s the “innocent” who fall victim.

    The law/s are NOT simple, which is what enables those with advanced “spin doctoring” skills to fool people.

    Unfortunately, explaining the intricacies of civil law requires way, way more time and space than can possibly be provided by forums such as this.

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  43. littleroundman:
    That, my friend, is EXACTLY why internet fraud flourishes and what ensures it’s the “innocent” who fall victim.The law/s are NOT simple, which is what enables those with advanced “spin doctoring” skills to fool people.Unfortunately, explaining the intricacies of civil law requires way, way more time and space than can possibly be provided by forums such as this.

    And u didn’t answer the question….did u?

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  44. Success Train: And u didn’t answer the question….did u?

    Err,

    that would possibly because you want a “simple” answer, in a format designed to fit within the constraints of a blog.

    Quite frankly, it makes no difference to me if you accept the explanation or not.

    I have no dog in this fight.

    It is what it is. No one can possibly explain in a sentence or two how civil law works, especially to people who up until recently had know clue as to the difference/s between “civil and “criminal” law, the remedies available under “civil law” statutes don’t really want to know, anyway.

    The law is complex, and there is more than one reason as to why a cease and desist order could appear to be no longer in place.

    ONE reason could be it was “lifted” because it was issued in error.

    ANOTHER reason could be the particular activity has ceased and will not be repeated in the future( i.e. desisted)and there is no need for the order to remain in its’ current form.

    ANOTHER scenario, which has been signaled by the Montana authorities as being likely is that the C & D has protected its’ citizens i.e provided “immediate relief” and the state now intends to proceed with fines and penalties, much like a Civil forfeiture order was used to stop AdSurf Daily in its’ tracks.

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  45. Ok, so the key to all of this is will there be some degree of “legal settlement” between Montana and ACN. My position is no…there will not be. Why? Because Montana has “surrendered” its only “leverage” they had in their favor – the c/d order. Reason for Montana’s change in position……they have no case because ACN’S business model meets all federal and state MLM guidelines…..and Montana now realizes that. Civil or criminal law…it doesn’t matter. You have to “prove” with “facts” that a law has been broken.

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  46. Success Train: My position is no…there will not be. Why? Because Montana has “surrendered” its only “leverage” they had in their favor – the c/d order.

    See ????

    I knew you didn’t have a clue about civil law and how it works.

    There is no need for “leverage” as you put it.

    The cease and desist order has worked or expired or been “lifted” which means the citizens of Montana are protected.
    Further, the State now intends to proceed with punitive action.

    Again I say, “ask the former members of AdSurf Daily how civil law works, the differences between civil and criminal law and where the burden of proof lies within both systems.

    With every post you are demonstrating further that you either don’t understand or don’t want to understand.

    Which, by the way, makes no difference, that’s just how it is.

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  47. Protected from what? What did ACN “do” that required the state to issue an order of “protection” on behalf of its citizens? Please don’t reply by saying – its not that simple.

    They either did what Montana said they did or they didn’t.

    Unless something illegal was actually being “done” by ACN, then Montana can “demand” fines and penalties till the cows come home. To admit legal guilt when there is none is a true tradgedy in our legal system – yes I know it happens. But I do not think that will happen here. ACN is 2 – 0 when facing a legal challenge. These guys have their house in complete legal order because they know they are in a “marked” industry.

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  48. 3 – 0

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