EDITORIAL: No Settlement In Larry Friedman Lawsuit Against Jack Arons; Tensions Escalate As Prominent Dallas Attorney Sues Pro Se Litigant
Florida resident Jack Arons, sued last week for libel and slander by Dallas attorney Larry Friedman and hit with a blitz of legal documents, said the lawsuit still was on and that settlement talks had broken down.
Friedman, the lawyer for the ASD Members Business Association (ASDMBA) Trust, describes Arons as a “felon†and a “vigilante†and an Internet “menace.†Arons, on Social Security, readily acknowledges he had encounters with law enforcement as a younger man.
ASDMBA was formed last summer, in the aftermath of the government seizure of tens of millions of dollars from Florida-based AdSurfDaily amid wire-fraud, money-laundering and Ponzi scheme allegations. Federal prosecutors say ASD was selling unregistered securities while calling itself an “advertising” service.
Members of ASDMBA said they expected Friedman to file litigation to protect their interests in the ASD case.
Arons plainly is confused about what to do. At the same time, he is angry. His confusion and anger are understandable. Friedman should have no expectation that he is dealing with a professional litigant who will react by the book.
Larry Friedman is dealing with a common man who does not have an attorney and who was buried in Friedman’s legal paperwork. At the same time, Jack Arons is being openly threatened in the ASD-Biz forum by a person who purports to be Friedman’s client.
Friedman already has lost the PR war. The war was lost with the paperwork blitz and the appearance on the forum by Friedman’s purported client.
Arons said he was unhappy with a document written by an intermediary for Arons’ signature that purportedly would bring the matter to an end. The document was in the form of a retraction. Arons rejected the document. (See the wording of the purported retraction document below.)
Instead, Arons prepared his own retraction of comments against Friedman and posted it in online forums.
Arons lives in a manufactured home in Florida. He has been soliciting input from nonexpert forum posters to go up against Friedman. The case was a train wreck from the moment it was filed.
We again call on Friedman to drop the lawsuit and fire his client, the ASDMBA Trust. If any entity is harming Friedman’s reputation, it is the Trust, whose de facto head is Bob Guenther.
See a previous post. See another one.
A poster purporting to be Guenther at the ASD-Biz forum announced the lawsuit against Arons last week — in two separate threads. The headline in the main announcement thread was titled, “Jack Arons Sued, Served and Shut Up, Finally . . .â€
The poster provided links to the lawsuit documents before Arons had been served, called him “Rookie” and threatened others with lawsuits. Later, the poster purporting to be Guenther referenced Arons’ adoptive, 6-year-old daughter in a post, raising security concerns. Arons is the father of a son who was murdered.
Arons said the matter has been reported to the FBI.
People are asking questions about the Trust, Guenther and Friedman. Some people said they had complained to the Texas Bar and the office of Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott. Their concern is how ASDMBA is spending money it collected from members. The Trust, Friedman’s client, has not answered questions to the satisfaction of some members.
Arons is not a member of ASDMBA. Friedman blames him for stirring the pot in Internet forums. It is only natural that Friedman would be concerned about complaints to the Bar and Abbott. Even so, Friedman, a professional, had to know that some ASDMBA members were unhappy and apt to complain.
That’s why Friedman should fire the Trust, which has not answered questions to the satisfaction of members.
Arons said he filed a pro se response to the lawsuit.
Friedman filed a vague complaint against Arons, swearing only to a single paragraph in the 12-page document but emerging with a temporary restraining order against Arons.
If Friedman is interested in a settlement, he should explain to Arons the precise conduct that damaged him instead of forcing depositions from on high and hitting Arons with an avalanche of legal filings.
This case is sad, especially since the behavior of Friedman’s client is the driving force behind the concerns of members. Their demand is reasonable: for Guenther to produce straightforward accounting. Instead they have been met with insults, political jibes and menacing forum posts.
None of those behaviors is consistent with transparency. ASDMBA was formed with the financial contributions of its members. Presenting a line-item accounting should be easy. Tensions have escalated because of the absence of detailed accounting by the Trust, leading to complaints to the Bar and the attorney general.
As noted above, Arons issued his own retraction to statements he had made online about Friedman. The retraction was published online before Friedman even had accepted it. This is the type of thing that happens when people act without advice of counsel and under extreme pressure.
And Larry Friedman knows this is the type of thing that happens when people act without counsel. He does not have the duty to act as Arons’ counsel, of course. After all, Friedman is claiming Arons harmed his reputation.
But Friedman does have a duty to play fair. The blitz he directed at Arons was repugnant.
The ‘Retraction’ Arons Wouldn’t Sign
Here, verbatim, is the retraction an intermediary told Arons that Friedman would accept to drop the lawsuit. We have added the italics.
Date:
Time:
I, Jack Arons, (Address, City, State, Zip) am writing this of my own free will on behalf of Larry Friedman of Friedman and Feiger Law Firm.
Over the last couple months I have been spearheading a campaign against Larry Friedman, due to my belief he, along with his client, willingly defrauded a group of people (the ASDMBA) of tens of thousands of dollars.
I have been encouraging the members to file a complaint with the Texas Bar against Mr. Friedman for his participation. After further research, and facts that have come to light, it is now my conclusion that Larry Friedman was indeed a victim in this debacle, of his own client! And that he did in fact, to the best of his ability, fulfill and honor his commitment to the ASDMBA members.
I apologize to Mr. Friedman for the egregious error and for whatever damage I might have caused to his name, his reputation, or his law firm. I further state I will discontinue the promoting of people to call the Texas Bar Association to complain about Mr. Friedman, and ask that those that did call back and say they made the complaint based on misinformation.
I will discontinue, from this day forward, from writing any posts in forums, or emails, or disseminating information in form, Mr. Friedman or his Law Firm.
I can be called for verification of this information at: ___(phone)___________
And once again, I apologize to Mr. Friedman.
(full name)
Arons’ Own Retraction
March 10, 2009
After consulting with many different people both for and against this problem that I am now faced with and to insure the safety and well being of my family I have decided to (as Bob would say) throw in the towel. I love a good fight and had my family not been dragged into a fight that was not of their making I would have done everything humanly possible to achieve the goal that resulted in a Bully called Bob Guenther from scamming people out of their hard earned money and getting away with it.
As far as Larry Friedman and his Law Firm is concerned I retract all statements made against them. Although I can not change what course of actions that have taken place concerning my statements I will no longer post anything derogatory concerning him or his firm.
Each member of the ASDMBA (which I am not) must make their own decisions of what they will do or have done and if they feel that they erred in filing anything against F&F that I might have said to take the appropriate actions to correct that which has been done.
I do not control the internet although at times like this I wish I did.
Jack Arons
10088 Blue Waters Road
Tallahassee, Florida 32305
850.421.5791
Patrick,
Thanks for this illuminating article. It is sad that Friedman is pulling this crap, and not distancing himself from the sociopathic behavior of Guenther. His latest threats were posted around midnight, and I was unaware that one could “break off a lawsuit so deep” previous to this posting.
It is also suspect that F&F are giving out refunds sent directly to them, especially since the “Trust” is way in the red, and still owes them $50K according to ASDMBA “records”. Odd that that is the same amount of “damages” F&F suffered. The refunds are to try to stem the tide of complaints against F&F, and came too late to stop most of them.
My opinion.
It seems that the ASD-Biz forum has been taken down. They claim that it is for maintenance. My opinion is that is not the case. Could this be another tactic of Bob Guenther?
At 1:00 pm cst on the 13th of march the surf-up site is down for maintenance also.
Well, ASD-Biz Forum isn’t the only one down for maintenance. So is the Surf’s Up forum. Interesting timing to say the least that both sites are down for maintenance at the same time.
It’s fairly common for ning.com forums to go down across the board for maintenance. I checked a forum that wasn’t surf-related, and it was down.
Patrick
My Forum is also down, so it’s Ning.. Bob doesn’t have that kind of power… except in his own mind….
I just checked, and both sites are back online. I had forgotten they were both ning.com forums, but it sure did look funny given the last post made by Bob G on the ASD-Biz forum.
What also was adding to the confusion is that David Courtney’s site was also down for all the ad surf companies he was promoting, but it has been down for sometime now. His last E-mail didn’t even mention any of the surf sites. Rather odd, and makes one wonder what is going on with those sites.
The Judge extended the tro. She kept saying WE and not I when ever she spoke. The first thing she said was that WE had already decided to extend the TRO. And this was suppose to be a hearing where the Defendant is heard. She also said that I had to pay to come to Texas and pay 2400 for a mediator. When I again informed her that I was unable to come to Texas she said that I could have some one else look after my daughter.
All of the proceedings was recorded by a third party that not even the courts of Texas or any other States other than maybe the District of Columbia can touch and then only by a Federal Judge. The Judge never said that I could not record the so called hearing.
So on advise from the person recording the hearing I was instructed to go ahead and file with the court that which the Plaintiff wanted to have signed. The Judge said that WE will dismiss the case. I now must see if both are going to keep their word.
This document was sent to both the Judge and the Plaintiff 5 minutes after I got off the phone.
Jack Arons
I am puzzled. Whilst I believe it is wrong, very wrong for anybody to drag innocent kids in to a argument of any kind or attempt to use them as some sort of a weapon surely the same thing applies to all sides of the argument. No? After reading a post today (which I shall reproduce below)I had to wonder whether Aron’s query about Guenther’s kids came about before or after Guenther’s question about Jack’s daughter. Regardless of when it was I am reminded of the old adage “Two wrongs do not make a right.”
If it was wrong to bring Jacks innocent daughter into it, as I believe it was, then it must be equally wrong for Guenther’s kids, who one must presume are equally innocent, to be dragged into it also. Six of one and half a dozen of the other, methinks. Or to put it another way one is as bad as the other.
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“Jack Arons on March 9, 2009 at 3:41pm
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His alter ego is coming to the front. By the way Bob you never answered my request for information concerning your eight kids or why you wanted to know my daughters age…are you a pedophile?”
Pistol:
Bob started it and I was asking since in several of his very own rants he mentioned that he had eight kids and he even posted on the ASDMBA site a long drawn out rant about his eight kids two dogs etc..
Since no one including his wife was aware that they had eight kids it was a slam at Bob. As I have said before unlike you I do not hide behind a persona. First, Bob was wrong and continues to be wrong when he brings in innocent people not associated with the discussion. Fight Fire with Fire!!!
Bob opened himself up for the remark I made. You seem to be one of those people that jumps into a fray when it does not concern you and is not fully aware of all that has happened in the past nor will you be here in the future. You sleek in with your half of a story and then we will not see you anymore.
Bob started it. ya ya ya.He brought my daughter into it so I brought his into it. I want my ball back else I am going to tell my Dad and my dad is bigger than your dad. So there.
You were in and contributed to the ASDMBA? Right? No? Oh yeah right, you were fighting for the rights of your fellow man and to make sure that justice was done. Right.
Sad to see what is going on and what is being done to Jack – who is the most vociferous, but only one of many who want a full accounting of what happened with ASDMBA and their money, in every sense of the word.
Many of us have issues that we are reporting to the Texas Bar, as to the conduct of Larry Friedman in this case. They will not disappear because he silences Jack using legal strong arm tactics
As painful as it may be for some to accept, anybody who sent money to the ASDMBA deserves to lose their money. It’s just a pity that Guenther, Friedman and the likes of Kath Danch shared in the proceeds.
You may ask why I say they deserve to lose it? Well, I will tell you. They sent money to Guenther for purely selfish reasons i.e.they fully expected and hoped that Guenther would get them all of their money back, that they wouldn’t lose anything.
Given the nature of ponzi’s, no matter when they shutdown for whatever reason there is never enough money in the pot to make everybody whole. Therefore if the ASDMBA members got all their money back before anybody else, there would be that much less to be shared out amongst the remainder, meaning they would lose that much more.
In any case, anyone who believed in ASD and then that Guenther was another genius who could perform miracles, is not fully compos mentis and should not be allowed to handle their own money except for perhaps the odd bus fare or bag of candy.
Patrick,…
In the interest of ACCURACY,…I am surprised that Jack has not corrected you on one point. That DRAFT of a retraction was nothing more than a GUIDELINE for Jack,..not something he was expected to sign.
After my conversation with Larry, which “Jack” asked me to have,…in order to find out if Larry was receptive to dropping the lawsuit for the purpose of getting his family out of harms way,…I called Jack back. I informed him of the conversation content and some of the things Larry mentioned he would like to see in a retraction statement. That he was indeed receptive to dropping the lawsuit.
Jack ASKED ME if I could write something up and send it to him instead of going over it on the phone. Thus the retraction statement that you have above. I put it in the format I did above as a way to help Jack, so that all he had to do was delete or add to it,..and then email it.
One thing you have to remember here,..is that it was written with the express purpose of accomplishing what JACK said at the time he wanted done, he wanted the lawsuit dropped. There was no consideration of what it meant beyond that, as it was to serve only one purpose…to get Jack’s family out of harms way.
SO the language in the retraction was MINE, not Larry’s.
Jack is my friend, and I did as he asked.
Nothing more, nothing less.
This whole scenario is more than regrettable,..from Bob G to the Law Suit itself.
I just wanted to clear up that one point.
———————
And pistol,..your statement: “It’s just a pity that Guenther, Friedman and the likes of Kath Danch shared in the proceeds.”
While in absolute truth, it is true that I received $720, $100 of that a reimbursement. There is much more behind that story than meets the eyes.
I suggest you go to the forum and read the discussion “The $29,384.75 Contract Labor” I wrote up February 13th.
Kath
You may ask why I say they deserve to lose it? Well, I will tell you. They sent money to Guenther for purely selfish reasons i.e.they fully expected and hoped that Guenther would get them all of their money back, that they wouldn’t lose anything.
Please dont make so many assumptions. You have overlooked a couple of reasons that people joined the ASDMBBA. When it was first started it was going to try to prove the business model as legitimate (we were told they could), anad it was going to represent all members.
This assumption of greed or vested interest is a little misplaced when it relates to many members – which is why so many people have turned away from it.
I’ll just bet there is.
Did ASDMBA members fully expect and hope that Guenther would get them all of their money back, that they wouldn’t lose or did they not?
I couldnt possibly speak for any other members. I hoped they were going to help prove the ASDbusiness model – so the conpany would come back. However, it is now obvious that that was never a possibility and we were “had”
You’d have to ask the rest what their reasons and expectations were
Hello Kath,
In all honesty, I am surprised you agreed to become the intermediary. The reason is simple: You are not a professional mediator and have your own ax to grind with Guenther and ASDMBA.
This is not to suggest you are a bad person. It is to suggest you were not the proper person for this job.
At the same time, I am in receipt of an email in which you — after acting as the intermediary — made this remark:
“Here is what needs to be emailed to Larry, in return, he will drop the law suit:
This sounds very much like you were speaking for Larry Friedman. The retraction letter followed.
Jack Arons is acting without counsel. He clearly is confused, which is not a slight against his intelligence. He got hit with a blitz of paperwork, is using forum input from nonexperts to fashion his pro se pleadings — and it is a train wreck.
Respectfully, you claim you provided Arons a “guideline.” At the same, time, though, you told him if he signed the document that Friedman would drop the lawsuit. Let’s agree that you thought you were acting in the best interests of your friend, Jack Arons. The document as presented serves Friedman’s interests, not necessarily Jack’s.
Your remarks as quoted above plainly can be viewed that Friedman will drop the lawsuit if Jack signs the document you prepared. But where is Jack’s assurance from Friedman that will happen? And what if it doesn’t happen and Jack ends up signing a document that is not in his interest and does not accurately record his alleged culpability?
Jack needs counsel. It’s as simple as that. IMHO, no intermediary with ties to ASDMBA should be involved in the Friedman/Arons litigation, whether or not Jack asked them to become involved or Larry asked them to become involved. The reason is that the motives of the intermediary can be challenged, even if they are as pure as the wind-driven snow.
Patrick
Patrick,
Let’s be clear,…I dont care about being “right”. If I do something I should be accountable for, it may not be a hard pill to swallow,.but I always try not to be defensive. All I really care about is that the “facts” are correct. If they are, that is all I can ask for.
SO, keeping to the integrity that I have come to know you for…let’s be honest and say that you have not talked to me, and if you had, I dont believe that you would have stated some of the things you did above.
However,..you are welcome to remedy that. You have my number.
Kath
Kath,
You are being surprisingly defensive.
The integrity card? Feel free to explain in this comments section what I got wrong “above” and how you could have cleared it up in with a phone call.
I called you twice, Kath. Left one message. Hung up the second time.
My opinion that you shouldn’t have been the intermediary stands — and it stands no matter who asked you — Jack, Larry or a third party — to become involved.
Patrick
Patrick.
I wasn’t ‘challenging’ you. I am sorry if it came across that way. I was just feeling a little indifferent about the fact that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. And honestly,..it shouldn’t be me here telling you why you are incorrect about some of your assumption…it should be Jack.
So I will quick trying to explain what you dont want to hear.
And just accept your opinion. I know you are trying to be fair.
Thanks
No one knows what the ‘personal motives’ of the ASDMBA contributors were at the time they contributed….the bulk of all contributions came in Aug, Sept.Oct and Nov. The only thing that we all know for sure was what was said both in print and on national conference calls by Friedman and Guenther in their solicitation of money for a legal fund…..
I suggest Alasycia that in the immediate aftermath of the Federal seizure as people were emotional and reeling from their losses they were particularly vulnerable when they heard an Attorney on a conference call and then read information on the ASDMBA website that stated:
1. The ASD business was a legal business and not a ponzi because Friedman and Fieger had studied and reviewed it.
2. The USAG was not justified in seizing the assets and these assets really belonged to the ASD members or marketing participants who had paid in the money.
3.There was no one representing the interests of the ASD members in the Federal proceedings and without representation they would have no standing. (implied that would not get their money back….when you re-listen to Friedman on the conference call recordings)
4. Friedman would handle the case but needed a $100,000 retainer just to get started and probably more later and his billing were to be on an hourly basis not a contingency.
5. Friedman continued to say that this was the least expensive way to obtain legal representation because ‘contingency’ would be far more costly for the members…(25% of $93 million dollars)
Alasycia….this was the ‘pitch’ Larry and Bob used to get people to send in money. The “Trust’ had trustees, no one was going to get a salary and basically all contributions were to go for legal fees. Now Bob G’s accounting is that roughly $130,000 was sent in, Larry was paid $70,000 (and is still owed $50,000 for legal services) and the balance not paid to Friedman ended up being paid to Bob Guenther and his family for ‘expenses”
Per Bob Guenther now, the money is all gone and no one is getting a refund. Per Friedman he cannot give an accounting of his hours and work that constitute the $70,000 (or $120,000 if he is owed another $50K) unless he has the ‘PERMISSION’ of the ASDMBA Trust, the Trust is really de facto Bob Guenther his partner.
Bob Guenther has proven himself to be a raving idiot and he will give no accounting or refunds, now Friedman says he cannot give an accounting of how or where the money was spent and there is no ‘work product’ visible…so
The bottom line ia about $130,000 was collected for legal fees from people. All this money has been spent and ended up in the pockets of the two people who created and promoted the ASDMBA Trust….Guenther and Friedman. They are not going to give it back nor give any accounting to anyone. Every one loses except Larry Freidman and Bob Guenther.
No proof of any legal work has ever been offered, no appearances or other documents were ever filed in the Court where Friedman claimed representation was needed. Friedman has a Fiduciary Duty to the people that sent him money for legal fees. Peer review of Friedman’s participation and enrichment from this ASDMBA scam needs to be done by the Texas Bar Association.
My opinion, and I have a right to it under the 1st Amendment….
Wayne
I agree with every word of your post
Kath,
Without it having any reflection at all on your honesty, Patrick is one hundred per cent right that noone with any history with the organization of ASDMBA should be acting as an intermediary for Jack, in any legal issues, particularly anyone with any kind of relationship with Larry Friedman.
Jack, at this stage needs independant counsel who has noone but Jack’s interests to consider and is not involved in any other way.
Larry’s conduct to date is indicative of someone who is more than willing to use their power to supress any information that may make them look bad, irrespective of whether it is true. It is a marked contrast with the noble attorney whose life is dedicated to uphold the principals of law and justice!
(The above is my opinion, and as such is protected by the various laws that protect ones right to have an opinion)
Hi Pistol,
It was Kath, as you correctly point out. I’m not sure what caused that error, but I think I fixed it above. I didn’t fix it in your post because doing so might have caused the context of your post to be lost.
I don’t know if it was caused by a glitch in the Quote software or somehow was caused by a copy-and-paste error.
Thanks.
Patrick