UPDATE: Guest Columnist Relates Conversation With Lawyer On Matters Pertaining To Free Speech And Subpoena In Larry Friedman Libel And Slander Lawsuit Against Jack Arons
Editor’s Note: This is a follow-up column by Roxy Lewis, a member of ASD and the ASD Members Business Association (ASDMBA). Lewis is a self-described member of the “AARP generation” and a grandmother.
Her initial column was published April 18. It dealt with her thoughts and feelings about seeing her name in a subpoena in the slander and libel lawsuit by Dallas attorney Larry Friedman against Florida resident Jack Arons, a pro se defendant who draws Social Security and lives in a manufactured home. The initial Lewis column also included her take on email exchanges with Friedman’s law firm in her bid to receive a refund for her $100 contribution to ASDMBA.
This column addresses her discussions with an attorney about these matters. It is published in her own words. The references to the “Ning Nine” below are references to individuals about whom Friedman sought information via subpoena to ning.com, the host of the ASD-Biz forum.
For additional background, see reports on this Blog pertaining to Bob Guenther, the de facto head of ASDMBA. Guenther introduced Friedman to potential ASDMBA contributors last summer as a lawyer interested in protecting their interests in the civil forfeiture case against AdSurfDaily Inc., a Florida company federal prosecutors said was selling unregistered securities, engaging in money-laundering and wire fraud and operating a Ponzi scheme. Some ASDMBA members are unhappy with Guenther, saying he has not provided transparent accounting that detailed how ASDMBA spent money collected from contributors to protect their interests in the ASD case. ASDMBA members also complained about verbal bullying and threats from Guenther. Friedman is the attorney for the ASDMBA Trust.
Of Subpoenas, Speech and the Attempt to Silence
By Roxy Lewis
After writing the guest column on this blog [April 18], I was finally able to speak directly with a local Minnesota attorney who specializes in internet law, regarding my name appearing on Larry Friedman’s subpoena in his case against Jack Arons. I also wanted to know the legal ramifications of that, as well as my options and possible legal exposures. I would recommend everyone else who is curious do the same with an attorney local to their area.
Based on what I was told, I am even more convinced that naming the “Ning Nine” in the subpoena was a move intended solely to intimidate and silence us, and anyone else who reads about the ASDMBA, and possibly to fish for further information about the anonymous posters in the group.
First I asked whether I have any legal exposure based on being on the subpoena. The reply was no, as the subpoena was not directed to me personally, nor have I posted anything that could be considered libelous or defaming.
Next I asked, after reading the thoughts of others that the Ning Nine group members should sue Larry Friedman for defamation, whether this would be possible. In a word, no. Larry Friedman has not defamed or issued libelous statements regarding any of us. The fact that he listed our names on a subpoena is not actionable.
Third, I asked if I were to file a complaint with the Texas bar or shared information with the Citizen Media Law Project site, as some have suggested, would I have an exposure to suit there. His response was very interesting.
What he said was, “The best defense for a claim of defamation is the truth. If what you say in the complaint or share with the Project is the truth, and you can show that, you have an excellent defense.”
Then, just out of curiosity I asked this: Suppose Larry Friedman decides, since he has my real name and address, to sue me and schedules a deposition in Texas as he did with Jack Arons. Can he compel me to go to Texas, which would be as big a financial hardship to me as it is to Jack Arons?
His answer was very enlightening. He said, “Generally speaking, the answer is no. Generally speaking, a person being deposed cannot be forced to travel more than 100 miles for the process.”
So, there you have it. Ning has said it isn’t going to respond to the subpoena. None of us on the subpoena other than Jack have personally been subpoenaed or sued at this point. We have no cause of action against Larry Friedman for our names being included in the subpoena. Those of us who have said nothing negative or untrue about Larry Friedman and/or Friedman and Feiger, have the best defense should he ever decide to come after us in an attempt to silence his critics and/or the entire internet.
We have the facts, which often come from Larry Friedman himself, and in his own words, no less.
However, there is another option for the Ning Nine. I was told there is no reason to refrain from making truthful reports to the appropriate bar associations and other public groups, such as Citizen Media Project about this entire matter, as has already been suggested in multiple online venues.
As long as the information is truthful and the assertions can be proven and documented, there is no reason not to proceed. In my case, as well as several others of the Ning Nine, I have not posted anything false about Larry Friedman or his firm, or the methods he has employed regarding the ASDMBA. His own company emails have done the damage, both those from himself and his employee. And as one of the comments to my guest column says, I am not the only one to receive such threatening responses via email when a simple refund request was made.
I did find one other interesting tidbit in my research. Larry Friedman’s biography on the Friedman and Feiger site says he is licensed to practice in Texas, Florida and Minnesota. From what I found online today and confirmed by calling the Judiciary directly, this is not the case, at least in Minnesota. While he is a member of the Minnesota Bar, lawyer license #0032165, by virtue of having paid the fees on March 5, 2009, he is not authorized to practice here. The following information about his Minnesota status comes from this link: http://www.courts.state.mn.us/mars/AttorneyDetail.aspx?id=0032165
Screen shot reduced to fit within borders.
Since I was unfamiliar with the meanings of “Not authorized-Non-Resident†and “Involuntarily Restricted (by Court Order), I called the Bar office at 651-296-2254 and asked for clarification. I was told that the “Not Authorized-Non-Resident†is a choice the individual attorney makes, and is not mandatory simply because they are out of state.
The “Involuntarily Restricted (By Court Order) is because of Larry Friedman’s CLE status. Since he has not reported his CLE (Continuing Legal Education) record to the Minnesota Judicial System, his license to practice was involuntarily put in a “non-authorized†or “on-hold†status. I find it very interesting that his biographical information on the Friedman and Feiger site says he is licensed to practice in Minnesota, when he is not, according to our State Judiciary. Licensed? Yes. Licensed to practice? No.
The same information can be found by searching the Minnesota Courts Lawyers for Public Discipline site at http://www.mncourts.gov/lprb/SearchLawyer.aspx.
So, I invite all of you to do your own checking with an attorney local to your area, to see if you get different answers than I did. For the present, there are no grounds on which the Ning Nine can sue Larry Friedman as he’s done nothing actionable.
Ning isn’t going to respond to the subpoena request, according to Paul Levy, particularly since they don’t even gather all of the information included in the subpoena. What each person decides to do after talking to a local attorney regarding their personal interactions with Larry Friedman and/or his staff, is clearly up to them.
But as the attorney I spoke with said, as long as you are being truthful and can substantiate and document the facts of what you say, you have the best defense against any defamation claim from anyone, including other attorneys, wherever they may reside. That would apply to any group of persons, such as the 300 ASDMBA members located in Florida, who may choose to take this further as a group, as well as it would to individuals.
Another good one Roxy. I guess Patrick will have to put you on his payroll now or claim you as a dependent and issue you one of Guenthers 1099s.
Roxy,
Thanks for this information. It is most helpful, and sort of agrees with other information I have obtained. Patrick had better be careful or this maybe turn into Foxy Roxy’s Blog.. LOL
About the Minnesota license thing; maybe Larry just forgot to update that. He is a busy man, after all. I’m sure he wouldn’t leave that info on his site if it is untrue.
Isn’t it also difficult to sue someone for their opinions? Or if they believe something to be true? That sort of takes it out of “bad faith”.
Hi I am not Don,
Could be, but since he remembered to be sure the dues were paid, you’d think he’d answer the CLE question that goes with license renewal as well.
As to the opinion question, I’m not sure. I think it comes down to what you are saying. If you say, as I have, that in my opinion, the Ning Nine in the subpoena was an intimidation tactic, rather than stating this as a “fact”, then you’re talking about my opinion, and it’s hard for someone to say that I am inaccurate about my own opinion! I believe that’s why the attorney I consulted said as long as a person can prove what is said, and it’s the truth, you have the best defense.
Roxy, a.k.a. NNN (Nine #9)
Hey Jack,
TOO funny!
Roxy
A very good follow up report, congratulations for not being intimidated by everything this lawyer and his employees tried to do to intimidate you. Clearly that ‘Ning 9’subpoena was for the sake of intimidation not information, there is no information to be gained that is not on the Ning already.
I congratulate you and the ‘Ning 9’ for standing your ground and telling the truth. As you attorney told you correctly, the truth is the best defense. I live in a small town in a rural area and a local attorney sued a local business man for a million dollars for slander and libel because he had made ‘public utterances’ that the lawyer was a crook. He had even called him a crook in a letter to the editor in a local newspaper. In defending himself the businessman asked the Court (jury trial) to be able to make his case that the lawyer was a crook by saying the accepted definition of ‘crook’ was someone who took money that didn’t belong to them.
The defense was the truth and the businessman laid out 4 or 5 instances two involving himself and other incidents with other people with documentation and witnesses where it was pretty well documented the lawyer had played fast and loose with money that did legitimately belong to him.
The Jury found the Defendant accused of Libel and slander, ‘Not Guilty” and the publicity and the evidence presented at the trial caused the County Bar Association to investigate the lawyer who ended up losing his license for 3 years and eventually having to move from the area.
This attorney, like Larry Friedman had gotten away with threatening people with lawsuits or whatever for years when they complained about the lawyer because he was a lawyer and they were not, and had gotten away with taking advantage of people for years.. The businessman had no problem finding others to tell their stories about how this attorney had taken money from them…..and thus proving the charge of the attorney being a ‘crook’ was the truth so the Jury concluded.
I don’t think this Mr. Arons guy would have any problem in finding dozens of folks like Roxy who had her money taken by Friedman to step up to the plate and tell their stories about how Friedman and Guenther took their money and then threatened or intimidated them as was done to Roxy. The best defense is the truth and just prove it is the truth and you will win every time.
Richard
Hi Richard,
What a great story! Thanks for sharing it with us. It reminds me of a couple of my favorite quotes:
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein
“It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succed with a lie.” Adrian Rodgers.
In this mess with ASDMBA, I find that last one particularly fitting.
Roxy
Roxy,
If you recall my conversation with you pertaining to your request for a refund, I believe that you would have to agree I was informative, firm with my assertion that the ASDMBA would not give anyone a refund, I was not rude and referred you to Larry Friedman.
What transpired from there I have no control over, I cannot, nor do I desire to try to influence Friedman and Feiger in any way with regard to what THEY chose to do regarding refunds. My stand has been the same since day one. We will try our best to go get the Members money, I will use every tactic, through the legal system or otherwise to try and retrieve money due the ASD Members who have suffered a loss by investing in ASD..
In dealing with a lifetime crook like Andy and his crew, one must think like a thief to catch one. There are games played, people used, sometimes abused, people’s feelings hurt etc etc, all for the purpose of the end game, get the money for the members.
BUT please consider this. I probably know more about ASD, Panda, Busby Bowdoin and his tight group of gypsy thieves, some of which are still taking peoples money in 5 more ASD clones. You seem to agree that the truth will never hurt you.I tell you this, without a doubt, and with verifiable and undisputable proof so called “Florida 300” are actually more like
Bob,
I am confused. Roxy joined the ASDMBA Trust. Friedman claims that his client is the ASDMBA Trust so F&F only represents the ASDMBA Trust in legal issues but does not control the ASDMBA Trust or represent individual ASDMBA Trust members. If Roxy sent money to F&F and F&F cashed the check or otherwise had control of the funds, why would they not refund her?
If F&F did not handle the funds, who did? My understanding is that you are, as Patrick likes to say, “the defacto head” of the ASDMBA Trust. If F&F received the funds and forwarded them to the ASDMBA Trust, why would you not refund her?
So if Roxy is entitled to a refund, how can both you and F&F state that she has to look elsewhere for a refund? The two are mutually exclusive. J
Why would you refer Roxy to Friedman? Why would F&F handle funds designated for the ASDMBA Trust?
Roxy,
If you recall my conversation with you pertaining to your request for a refund, I believe that you would have to agree I was informative, firm with my assertion that the ASDMBA would not give anyone a refund, I was not rude and referred you to Larry Friedman.
What transpired from there I have no control over, I cannot, nor do I desire to try to influence Friedman and Feiger in any way with regard to what THEY chose to do regarding refunds. My stand has been the same since day one. We will try our best to go get the Members money, I will use every tactic, through the legal system or otherwise to try and retrieve money due the ASD Members who have suffered a loss by investing in ASD..
In dealing with a lifetime crook like Andy and his crew, one must think like a thief to catch one. There are games played, people used, sometimes abused, people’s feelings hurt etc etc, all for the purpose of the end game, get the money for the members.
BUT please consider this. I probably know more about ASD, Panda, Busby Bowdoin and his tight group of gypsy thieves, some of which are still taking peoples money in 5 more ASD clones.
You seem to agree with me that the truth will never hurt you.I tell you this, without a doubt, and with verifiable and undisputable proof.
First, there are approximately 1700 ASDMBA members worldwide. Florida residents make up approximately 14% of the ASDMBA contributors, some 240 individuals. The average ASDMB contribution from this group, $53.00. Florida, the home of ASD and Andy Bowdoin has one of the largest contingent of injured members, having lost MILLIONS to Andy and ASD.
BUT!!!!!! With the losers in a PONZI, there are always WINNERS.. I have personally received only 21 request for refunds from the state of Florida, and 15 of those we have identified as people who either had a small net loss or had a net gain from ASD operations.
There are about 25 people in Florida, all of which are big winners in ASD, and they are doing everything they can do to bust up the ASDMBA and drive a wedge between us and our lawyers. WHY??? Because I keep unraveling scam after scam, crook after crook and more winners. I have identified one of the biggest winners in ASD and his main downline leaders. He is a VERY sucessful businessman, well known for taking a large company public, the main players aremade up of lawyers and 20 or so sucessful business people.. Although I dont see that the majority of these people are part of the ASD scam by choice, they are still winners, and must return their profits.. Period……
Other large groups, who were in with Andy and ASD from the start, and were gifted HUGE quantities of AdPacs, made millions, people like Robert Fava and his group. Low level scam artists and thieves, many past felons and Fava himself, a convicted child abuser, all brought into the ASD “family” by Bowdoin..
They have done exactly what they tried to do, deflect attention from them, turn you and people like you against the very people and law firm who tried to protect the interest of the people and go get the money..
It is not over yet Roxy, but since you, and many of the others requested and received their refunds from Friedman, you are no longer a member of the ASDMBA, and therefore will not participate in any recovery we MIGHT get.. I trust that $100 refund was worth all the effort and trouble..
This fight is far from over…. All this negative exposure about the people and law firm who chose to FIGHT for the little guy, who chose to do something instead of just sit and gripe, moan and bellyache on a computer over the internet, and almost all under false identities and aliases.. How about going after the WINNERS??
I put $5500 into ASD, I took one check out for $10, just to see how the system worked, and that check bounced.. So far I have 8 months, over 1000 hours of time and $60,000 of my own money invested in getting the members money back. And Im going nowhere,
Despite the whinners, grippers, bellyachers and just plain pain in the ass ASD members, we have hundreds of support letters, still get them everyday.
I am not here to win any friends, win a popularity contest, get a medal, or even a thank you.. We signed on to do a job and that was GET THE MONEY…. And ultimately, we will. But before anyone can get the money, Jugde Collyer must rule on who has control of the money, and that is far from over.. What part of that do yu people not understand..
Right after this post Im going to provide copies of just three random letters from our members.. You tell me if it is worth all the effort and BS..
Bob Guenther
ASDMBA ASD Member #66281
Letters from ASDMBA Members:
—–Original Message—–
From: Larry XXXXXX http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: bob@asdmembersbusinessassociation.com
Subject: Another Story
Bob,
First, I want to commend you on your efforts and your dedication to this cause to get any and all monies returned to ASD members. Your abilities are notably exceptional and show dedication and a real heart for correcting what went so terribly wrong. Thank you.
I wanted to tell you a story that, in my estimation, is not only heart-breaking but one that shows the level of greed that existed in this company in order to sell more people on the idea of ?15 second money?.
I do not want her name used in this story as she requested that it not be. I will use it in my narration but please keep it out of any articles that you may post.
xxxxxxx, a single mother of four daughters, has had a life in our United States that while rewarding to a degree, is extremely difficult due to our very high cost of living.
As a background to her story, xxxxxx married in the old Soviet Union. She married at the very young age of 17 and had her first daughter when she was 18. Her husband, as many Russian men are, was an alcoholic and drank himself to an early death. He drowned at the age of 21. Swimming and diving off rocks while extremely intoxicated. In Russia, the culture is that you marry young and have your family at an early age. Not so unlike our country back 40 ? 50 years ago. She re-married a man who did not drink at the time of her wedding, but soon, after the despair and pressure of life in a communist country, also began drinking heavily. She bore her second husband two daughters. During the second pregnancy, her second husband also began to drink heavily. More than her first. He was a raging alcoholic and was given one year to clean up his life or xxxxxx vowed to leave and divorce him. He didn?t stop drinking, lost his job and the end result was another broken home.
Three or four years passed and xxxxxx found herself having a very hard life in Russia. Even after the wall fell, things were not good and future success for many of the populace was very hard to achieve. So, as many of the Russian woman did, they tried to find a way to come to the United States as well as many other countries where they felt their opportunity to succeed would be easier to attain. She soon began corresponding with a man who lied about his age and never showed her a photo. She agreed to come with him to America to hopefully start a new life. Upon his arrival in Russia, she was shocked and very much in doubt of returning with him to make a new life for her family. But, pressure was put upon her by her mother and other members of her family to think about her daughters. So, she agreed to come back to the United States with this third man in her life. She married him shortly after arriving here and got her first job. She had a very difficult time speaking the language and therefore relied heavily on this third husbands direction.
Not long after the wedding, she began to notice that her husband was sleeping extremely long hours and that he did not want to work any longer. He soon left his job and just remained home. He was diagnosed as being extremely depressed. Within one year of coming xxxxxx to America with her three daughters, her third husband committed suicide as the pressure of this life was too great for him.
Here she is, a Russian woman who cannot speak the language, is new to our country and culture, alone in a strange city with no friends and no family of her own. She had two choices, to run home to face a life of obscurity and poverty, or to remain here and try to make a go of it. Well, history tells us the outcome of that decision.
She soon fell in love with a man, who on the outside, had all of the qualities that none of her three previous men had. He was a professional and had a good job. She became pregnant with her fourth child who she wanted terribly. Maybe to fill a void that life sometimes brings, but really out of love for her new found boyfriend. Within three months of the pregnancy, he told her that he couldn?t take on the responsibility of a family of three, soon to be four. While this devastated her, she chose to have her fourth child and remain friends with this new man.
He, as one would expect, didn?t remain in her life long after the birth. He has never paid child support, he has left the area and sometimes can?t be found for months. So, her life now was filled with responsibility and emotional stress that surpassed that of her home country.
As a side note, Russian culture is completely different from here in the United States. Woman do not work there. Once married, they raise their family and are supported by their husbands. So trying to find another man was a very natural thing for her to do.
After the birth, she finds herself working three jobs 18 hours per day. No time for anything. Being resourceful, she decides to begin her own business. She starts a cleaning service that would surpass even her wildest dreams. She was so good at what she did that her income soon grew to a level that allowed her to maintain a comfortable life style for her and her children.
But, as in other circumstances of life, was not to be enjoyed too long. She got a hernia that sidelined her for over 6 months. She had to hire individuals to do the work and because of the quality of employees in the non-skilled occupations, the quality of the job soon eroded and she lost many of her best clients.
In comes ASD. An opportunity to make thousands of dollars which would allow her to not have to work as hard as she once did and would allow also, a quality of life only dreamed about in Russia.
She still has difficulty with our language and doesn?t? t really understand some of the pitfalls of mlm marketing concepts and the deceit that sometimes occurs.
She was convinced so deeply that she borrowed an amount that was well in excess of what she should have. She put all of the money into ASD and for about one month, was surfing daily and watching her money grow. Then, all of the problems that began to signal trouble started to plague the company. This did not stop xxxxxx from telling all of her neighbors, her cleaning customers, her daughters and their friends and on and on. Many of them became interested in ASD and soon joined along with her.
We went to Tampa with others to purchase a rather large sum into her advertising budget. At the convention, a man approached her down line and right in front of us began to tell her down line how they should immediately exclude their sponsor and put the money into a third ad account therefore reaping the benefit of doubling their money and eliminating xxxxxx account. Highly unethical to say the least, but legal.
xxxxxx, is a classic example of a person in desperation, looking for a way to support her family, any way that she can. She only wants a life that is without poverty and despair. She can have that back in Russia. She fell for the ASD proposal with a vengeance. The promise of high income in a short period of time permeated the discussions with her sponsor. I got involved afterwards and while I really liked the concept, saw from the beginning that there are real issues here that just don?t make sense. I read as much about the company and Andy as I could. I felt Andy?s lawyer was a crook from the moment I saw him. The 15 minute telecast telling potential clients that there are no problems with ASD was read line for line from a script that was prepared by Andy I am sure. He did not portray an atty that was qualified to handle the sums of money that would soon pour into this company.
I read all of the rules and regulations that were a part of this company and found the 125% number. Found the 1% daily that is not guaranteed and other items that were never mentioned at any of the meetings that I attended along with Marina. All we were ever told was it was a way to make 1% daily on your ad packages forever.
Bob, I know you may have many stories like this. We should have known better. I should?ve known better, the lure of this kind of money really blurred our vision of what could happen. Once our money was in ASD, we were never able to surf again. The computers never worked, the phone lines were very difficult to get through to, and the answers once a person was reached was unknowledgeable and in many cases, not the correct response. xxxxxx did everything right. We created a web page. One that she is proud of and was immediately placed on the ad rotator. She and I both felt that this would be a way to expose her business to others. The page is http://www.Euromaidservice.com
It is a great web page. We both knew, that while our ad would go to people all over the world, the more hits on the web to that site would create a higher probability of optimization to others in our market area. She went into the business with all of the right reasons and some with the promise of wealth also.
Long story made longer, we don?t have the money to lose. xxxxxxx, has no way of paying this loan back without ASD and now has created more hardship on herself and her family. Since ASD stopped, she has lost many hours of sleep, she is depressed, she looks at ASD news everyday in hopes that she will be told that ASD is up and running once again.
I do not tell her how I really feel about the chances of ASD?s return and always try to give some hope so that at least she can go on this day. One more day without ASD, but always the hope that it will return.
She has increased her business by a large margin, but because of her illness in the past, has not been able to perform at the same level that she once did. Her oldest daughter now works with her, but is also not well and has many allergies to the chemicals used in the cleaning process.
Life for all of us Is like a box of chocolates, like Tom Hanks stated so well in Forrest Gump. Some of us go through life with everything we ever wanted. No worries, no problems good health and other blessings. Others do not. Choices we make many times dictate the outcome but a foreign woman, mother of three, soon to have four, alone in a strange land, no skills, poor language ability, poor health, grasped at the opportunity. She was desperate and she bought into the concept only to have one more setback and disappointment in her life.
We will do anything to get our money back. Anything. If ASD is allowed to re-open, we will be happy. If it is not allowed to re-open, we feel very secure in the fact that you are in control of a possible re-imbursement of the money borrowed and spent. All of it would immediately go to pay back the person who lent it to her. Just to relieve the pressure of this huge debt over her head.
Thanks for listening Bob and thanks for all of your efforts to assist people like xxxxxx. I know there are many other stories like xxxxxxx and many them with more hardship than she has. But all of us, you included, all fell for the promise of easy money. In xxxxxx case, it was for the promise of a better life. Not to get rich, just to make ends meet without killing herself on a job that requires her to work like a horse.
Thanks again.
Larry xxxxxxx
Letters from ASDMBA Members:
Original Message —–
From: randy XXXXXX
To: bob@asdmembersbusinessassociation.com
Subject: I’m behind you all the way
Bob, lets get down to what is really going on here! If you want to put this on your web site it’s up to you. I have a son that is in the Army also, he’s 21. I’m a Viet Nam Vet, highly decorated. I’ve been burnt several times in my life. Owned 3 corporations, several times I’ve told myself that the next guy that burns me I’ll make sure he doesn’t do it to anyone again. I was coached into buying advertisement in ASD. I got involved in it to sell real estate in Costa Rico. I looked at it and after seeing the President of the Corp sit in his chair with his so called lawyer on video, I thought something was up but I had already sent 7000 dollars in. I couldn’t get out. I watched and listened to this moron preach and hide behind god feeding us with his bullshit. I knew it was a scam from that point on. But couldn’t get out! I’m standing behind what I have promised myself. They can not hide in Panama or anywhere else in this country. I have talked to a couple of Vets that have been burnt by these scammers. I just got out of the VA hospital in Salt Lake City Utah, diagnosed with PTSD, and met several Vets that I got really close to from Iraq, Panama and Viet Nam. Vets that are really pissed off with the way our government works. They take our money and ask questions later. They took money from people that are really hurting. Right in the middle of a depression. I heard that there was a suicide attributed to this bullshit. These people that are degrigating you are people the sucked people that made money off of bringing people in, they just want to get their profits back, they could care less about the people that lost money. I taled to some friends tonight, in the military, and retired military, and I think we need to take things into our own hands. If this isn’t resolved soon, then we need to contact the people I know in Panama, here in the US I want my money back, I I guarantee you, I will get it back one way or another. I have 2 retired friends in special OPS, and several friends that are Viet Nam Vets. All I need to have is names, the people that lied, burned us, the ones that took off to Panama, ETC. This Busby guy and this nutcase religious fanatic better watch out, their lies are being dissected by some Viet Nam Vets that have been burned. If you can give me the names of the people in Panama I will have a real heart to heart chat with them in person. These dmf’s have stepped on the wrong toes and I promise you that me a a couple of my Viet Nam Vet friends will take care of this whether the lawyers do or not. When I heard that the rip offs headed for Panama Immediately called my friend that was stationed there, I need the names and that’s it. It will be taken care of. As for the people on these other website that suckered people into loosing money, good luck. I will get your numbers also. You want to play games, welcome to the Vietnam Veterans ASS. Be very careful what you say , we know who and where you stay. 25th Infantry Division, Cu Chi, Vietnam, 1969. I guarantee you, you rip me off or any of my friends from Viet Nam, you will loose! Wheather you are in Panama, Iraq or where ever, the names of the people that ripped us off will be posted. Bob, love ya, and you have no idea who is behind you. Look this one up, sign from Viet Nam, Vengenience, Kum Te Chi, we will find out who owns our money! Love ya pal, Randy
Letters from ASDMBA Members:
: Deb XXXXXXX
To: Bob Guenther
Cc: rlg@rlgenterprises.com
Subject: ASD: Let’s go get out money back from ASD (Andy, too)
Larry and Bob
I speak for my entire family Cassandra, Annette, and Amy we want to fight to get our money back from ASD. I also have several friends I gifted that I would like to get their money back also.
It turns out that our first money I gave to ASD in Tampa was NOT deposited into ASD until July 11, 2008. Didn’t find that out until I got all of the documentation for this case. It also turns out that the money from July 18 was deposited after the accounts were frozen into different accounts. Once again the backs of the checks were quite telling. Thus, we were only able to surf a couple of days before the computer went down in early July.
In total that we were swindled out of was over $50,000. That money came out of my retirement fund. I was hoping to not only promote my home based business, but also to help my daughter’s. Since that did not turn out and the economy went south, one of my daughter’s is really struggling to make it in Med School, since her student loan was cut in half and my other daughter had to file for bankruptcy.
At this time, I have gone back to work to try to insure we can pay our bills. I am willing do work to help the cause, I just don’t have any more spare cash at this time.
Please keep pursuing this case. My family could really use the money that was swindled out of us by a swift talking supposedly God fearing old man.
Thanks for all of your hard work
Deb XXXXXXX
ASD #33133
P.S. I attached my spreadsheet with our information.
I could keep sending these leters all night.
But then we didn’t win a Pulitzer Prize, we just tell it like it is..
Bob Guenther
Err,
that’s all very interesting, I’m sure.
But, what does any of it have to do with what’s actually happening ????
You can produce all the letters, testimonials and “evidence” you like, but you STILL have no standing in this matter.
That’s how the law, as flawed as it may be, works.
You’re a victim, your correspondents are victims and ALL “VICTIMS” ARE EQUAL in the eyes of the law. Neither you nor they have any special standing.
The DoJ has clearly laid out its’ case and its’ intended methods of proceeeding.
All the rest is just bluff and bluster on your part and on the part of anyone else threatening revenge and retaliation.
This may be YOUR first experience with an online scam, but it most certainly not the first of its’ kind for the DoJ, IRS, FBI or AG.
Unlike those shooting off their mouths, they actually KNOW what they’re doing, and will no doubt proceed with or without the approval of internet bullies, loudmouths and the various “johnny-come-lately” opportunists who invariably surface in the aftermath of such scams collapsing.
To quote the well known philosopher and raconteur, Foghorn Leghorn,
“go away, kid, ya botherin’ me”
I put $5500 into ASD, I took one check out for $10, just to see how the system worked, and that check bounced.. So far I have 8 months, over 1000 hours of time and $60,000 of my own money invested in getting the members money back. And Im going nowhere,
Boobie Bob:
Ok! Now I am totally confused. First you tell everyone that you only put 5,000.00 into ASD and now its $5,500.00 (I guess that’s after your matching bonus). You are now claiming that you spent $60,000.00 of YOUR money. That $60,000.00 just happens to be the difference in what F & F was paid and the missing money from the TRUST (oops not a legal Trust per Bob). So now you are saying that the members money is your money and not their money which means that there money was never theirs since it now belongs to you. Is that correct?
And who knows when they write these letters? Maybe yesterday and maybe in September 2008. I was a member of ASDMBA – not because I was a winner, but because we believed that Larry Friedman when he said that the ASD business model was not illegal, and that he could get us standing in court. I thought it would help protect those people who had done nothing illegal but might be attacked by the AG.
Since then a lot of water has passed under the bridge. It is clear that ASD was a ponzi, and that there was no outside income. That means that Larry Friedman’s recorded assessment of ASD as a non ponzi is not valid. The penny finally dropped for people that, as stated by Friedman in one of the earlier calls, the money was Andy Bowdoin’s and not of the members.
It was never clear, as Bob Guenther changed his stance many times, whether the achievements in gaining standing would assist all ASD members, all ASDMBA members, or only the “losers” amongst the ASD members.
I am not clear at which point the ASDMBA took a turn and decided its brief was not get its members standing, in what now had been established as a dubious legal operation (ASD) and to act as an AG informer, including when it related to “winning” members of ASDMBA.
Whilst I am in no way defending ASD as a legitimate enterprise, nor the conduct of certain key figures in it, I am unaware that the “brief” of the ASDMBA was to act as AG helper, when they had members who were winners and had accepted their money too. If anyone wants to help out the AG, FREE AND ON THEIR OWN ACCOUNT, that is applaudable under the circumstances.
HOWEVER, that does NOT entitle Bob to use ASDMBA legal funds to do that. The job of the ASDMBA and its attorney was to achieve standing for all its members in court and obtain refunds (if possible) THROUGH that line of action. It was never to get appointed receiver, or administrator for ASD funds, nor was it to play at detectives.
The supposed Vet who wrote the letter has made as many erroneous assumptions as Bob G about the nature of the people that object to Bob’s handling of ASDMBA funds and his conduct and that of Larry Friedman in suing Jack Arons, and in not returning legal funds to their donors. Most of us are simply pèople who are still living in a state of suspended disbelief at the way these people are behaving and which has nothing to do with the ASDMBA we joined.
Hello Bob,
This is the only post from you which I respond to, as others are already doing so to your “letters” from others. I particularly like the one from Alasycia.
First, you are wrong about my still being part of the ASDMBA. I have not received money back from Friedman and Feiger, nor have I received it from you.
Second, I do recall our “conversations”, very well. You were not “informative and firm”, you were hostile. I also recall our conversations in which you said, in the online ASDMBA meeting, that you knew specifically how I could get my money back from TCF, then when you finally decided to talk to me on the phone, you said this was not the case, you had no idea how to do this.
So, post away all you want about the great things you think the ASDMBA has done. I for one do not agree in the least and won’t waste another minute responding to what you post.
Roxy, N#9
Roxy – I think it is called a “selective memory” lol
Hi Alasycia,
My grandkids have that same memory type, and are also prone to telling whopper stories. In their case I think both of these characteristis are related to being grade school children :), which wouldn’t apply in this case, would it?
Roxy, N#9
As usual Bob is attempting to throw everyone a curve ball. I believe its called miss direction. Since there is no way to verify the authenticity of the emails one can only guess that Bob actually has some one that can write in plain English and without making threats to get his point across. As is the case most who read an email of this kind one can only think that it is again another ploy by Boobie bob to try and make people believe that he is not a lunatic.
If you will also note he is now saying that you are a contributor. So, we have gone from Members, investors (in the Lawsuit)to contributors. What next Bob?
Roxy and all,
http://www.beardenlawfirm.com/Texas%20Civil%20Procedure.pdf — Page 5 and 6
This is not legal advice, it is a question only!!
Did the attorney you consulted mention the Texas Long Arm Statute? I tried to determine if the TLA Statute might apply to Jack Arons because libel is a tort, and in Texas, committing a tort in the state is considered “doing business in the state.” To serve a non-resident who has no agent in the state, LF would have had to go through the Texas Secretary of State’s office and the official service of process would come from the Secretary of State, NOT from LF or F&F. Failing to file the appropriate motion to challenge jurisdiction will result in agreeing to the jurisdiction by default.
In addition to what your attorney said about truth being an absolute defense to a libel claim, there might be other reasons why LF’s complaint could fail. If the statements weren’t made with malice, even though they were strongly worded, the libel suit could fail.
http://www.rcfp.org/newsitems/index.php?i=3775
NEWS MEDIA UPDATE TEXAS • January 9, 2004 • Libel
Supreme Court rules Forbes not liable for business disparagement
Jan. 9, 2004 — A libel suit against Forbes magazine was overturned last month by the Supreme Court of Texas, which held that the plaintiffs in the case failed to prove actual malice, defined as knowledge of or reckless disregard for the falsity of a statement. On Dec. 19, the Supreme Court unanimously held that the case should be dismissed because the plaintiffs presented no evidence that Forbes published the article with actual malice. Relying on the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1984 decision in Bose v. Consumers Union, Texas’ high court said a media defendant’s poor choice of words or content, without evidence of deliberate falsity, does not amount to actual malice.
http://www.utcle.org/eLibrary/preview.php?asset_file_id=8599 Interesting read also..
But check this out this little Texas law, too!!
CHAPTER 9. FRIVOLOUS PLEADINGS AND CLAIMS
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CP/content/htm/cp.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.001.00
Sec. 9.011. SIGNING OF PLEADINGS. The signing of a pleading as required by the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure constitutes a certificate by the signatory that to the signatory’s best knowledge, information, and belief, formed after reasonable inquiry, the pleading is not:
(1) groundless and brought in bad faith;
(2) groundless and brought for the purpose of harassment; or
(3) groundless and interposed for any improper purpose, such as to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation.
Who is it that knows what they are doing? Andy’s lawyers have bailed, All you have now is Judge Collyer listening to evryone that wants to waste their time and money BEFORE she issues a ruling..Once she issues a rulinh, THEN you know who has control of the MONEY, that is who you soend your money on…
Stick around… We will be there..
AHHH.. WHERE are those men in little white coats!?
Yeh Right, it cost $130,000 for Bob to figure that out? In the mena time while your waiting to make your move, you can disclose your expenditures, Mr. ASDMBA. How can you make ANY kind of move when you are out of money?
Of course, all of this blowhard huffing and puffing could be terminated instantly if someone could produce a SINGLE example of where an “interested party” was appointed as receiver following a criminal case.
I guess, even an example of where a “victim” was allowed within a bulls’ roar of the proceeds of a crime/crimes would do.
Victim impact statements, such as those apparently received, can certainly have an influence on sentencing Judges, but, to my knowledge, have absolutely no relevance when deciding on the appointment of a receiver or, indeed, disbursement of any funds, should that eventually occur.