BULLETIN: Purported JSSTripler/JustBeenPaid Operator Frederick Mann Confirms For SECOND Time That ‘Program’ Pays Members With Funds From New Members; He Adds That ALL Payments Come From Members In Closed System
Frederick Mann
BULLETIN: Frederick Mann, the purported operator of the JSS Tripler/JustBeenPaid HYIP “program,” has acknowledged once again — this time by implication — that JSS/JBP pays members from funds received from new members. And Mann, who said the “program” had about a million members and acknowledged that nonmembers could not make purchases, has gone a step farther, saying that all payouts to members came from the funds of other members.
Mann initially acknowledged in a March 15 conference call that JSS/JBP members were getting paid with money from “new members.” The recording of the call later was removed from the JSS/JBP website.
During the June 28 JSS/JBP call, however, Mann again returned to the claim that members were getting paid by other members.
“I was just curious about . . . those million members,” a caller on the June 28 JSS/JBP conference call asked Mann. “So, those payments coming in from the million members right now are just being redistributed to . . . the group of the million members. None of the money is coming into the program from other nonmembers and none of the money is going out of the program to other companies? It’s just circulating in the program. Is that right?”
Mann replied, “That’s essentially right, yes.”
Paying “old” members with funds from “new” members is the central element of a Ponzi scheme.
But Ponzi schemes often also exist within systems in which a “program” effectively pools the funds of all members and then makes disbursements from the common pool to members who qualify for disbursements. Prosecutors and regulators may describe such an “opportunity” as a money-cycling scheme. Such schemes typically feature either the “classic” Ponzi stucture (money flow from “new” to “old” members) or a structure that is less-than-classic but still is a Ponzi (money from “all” to “all” members) — with the money coming from common contributors of an enterprise that has no meaningful income streams (or, indeed, no income streams at all) beyond what members contribute.
AdSurfDaily, which became engulfed in Ponzi litigation in 2008 that led to a plea of guilty to wire fraud in May 2012 by ASD President Andy Bowdoin, had elements of both “new to old” and “all to all.” ASD had income streams external to the Ponzi, but they were insignificant. Court records show that ASD had no underlying, profitable business to sustain its advertised payout rate of 1 percent a day. Like JSS/JBP, ASD operated a closed system — and JSS/JBP purports to pay a daily return double that of ASD’s while also advertising an ASD-like commission structure.
JSS/JBP announced on its website last week that it had hired a law firm in Utah.
That announcement followed on the heels of a statement by Mann last month that JSS/JBP members perhaps should avoid words such as “compound” when presenting the “program.” Despite Mann’s suggestion, JSS/JBP features a video on its website that — within the first 11 seconds — advertises, “Daily Compounding to give yourself an Automatic Pay Raise!”
Internal inconsistencies are one of the hallmarks of HYIP fraud schemes.
There are hundreds of established MLM companies doing exactly the same thing. Two very popular ones I can think of are Melaleuca and Trivita. Both do NOT allow retailing to outside customers. All products are sold to internal members only who must become customers. Both of these established, long term MLM companies recycle monies internally within the closed membership on all product volume. So are you calling these established members of the Direct Selling Association also ponzi schemes? Under your definition above, these two established MLM companies would also be ponzi’s according to your comments above. Since both companies do not allow retailing of products to customers and only allow internal sales to existing members, please explain the difference?
I forgot to mention in my example that both of the long established companies mentioned above also pay old members on the recruitment of new members into the memberships. Exactly the same way Just Been Paid pays it’s older members on the sales created by new members they refer into the membership. So I ask again, what is the difference?
[…] Patrick Pretty, the HYIP watchdog mentioned earlier, has reported on this as well. This entry was posted in Capitalism, Fragments, Fun. Bookmark the permalink. ← On […]
In Melaleuca, customers are “preferred customers”, and affiliates are “marketing executives”. Preferred customers have to “upgrade” to marketing executives before they can recruit more people, and earn “residual income”, AFAIK.
I believe Trivita is the same way. While customers are internal, they don’t get residual, referral, or commission.
The FTC makes it perfectly clear that in order to be considered a legal MLM company, the members must have 51% of their income come from “retail sales.” These must be customers only, and your downline cannot be included in this 51% of revenue.
Quick note: The IP of “Don” has been blocked because it is the same IP of “Kevin,” who posted in this thread:
https://patrickpretty.com/2012/06/20/bulletin-north-carolina-attorney-generals-office-refutes-suggestion-that-zeek-has-been-deemed-legal-we-do-have-concerns-agency-says-tv-station-removes-video-zeek-was-linking-to-on-its-bl/
At 3:15 p.m. yesterday, “Don” posted in this thread:
https://patrickpretty.com/2012/06/23/jss-triplerjustbeenpaid-now-soliciting-20000-purchase-amid-claim-of-400-per-day-payout/
Fifteen minutes earlier, Kevin, who had the same IP as “Don,” posted in the Zeek thread noted above.
Patrick
Don… if I’m not mistaken, both of the companies you named have something crucial that JBP appears to lack. Namely, they have actual products that would still be considered products if sold by non-MLM means; things that could hold onto market shares.
What does JBP have that would be viewed as a product or service in the mainstream world, pray tell?
Ponzi’s pay out regardless of whether you continue to recruit or not.
Pyramid schemes, which is what you are describing above, pay out on sales and recruitment but you have to sell something or recruit someone. They can be illegal MLM’s based on lack of customers and internal consumption, but they rarely get taken down by the authorities on this alone.
Ponzi’s are much more damaging than pyramid schemes. With a pyramid scheme, you know you have to recruit to earn. With a Ponzi, you are at the mercy of the business to not collapse before you recover your investment.
Quick note: Now, another banned IP is trying to post in this thread. This particular IP is associated with at least four usernames and at least four email addresses.
The same IP has used the word “proxies” and “proxy” in the makeup on the email addresses in previous would-be posts. Some of the posts were clear bids to chill:
Examples of would-be posts:
1.) “F[***] off,,,, you and your tribe.”
2.) ” . . . should I say more.. keep posting… you will get what you deserve, threat; possibly. you tell me . . .”
3.) ” . . . I wouldn’t post this if I were you . . .”
Patrick
perhaps you should ask for examples of the havoc the anonymous posters have caused previously so you can adjust the level of terror invoked by these ‘net bullies’ threats.
Personally, I blame it on too much TV.
What’s really sad is, these guys really DO believe that with a few keystrokes they’re going to bring down the entire net and cripple international commerce.
Wow, I thought it was me posting that.. But then I remembered… I Am Not Don
Poor moneydowntheloveit…….so much hate and nowhere to post.
Either that, or they both end up using the same proxies. :D
Essentially net trolls, right? *sigh*
I spoke to a Jardine Law Offices chat agent asking them to confirm or deny their representation JustBeenPaid. I was supposed to get an email from them. That was several days ago – nothing yet.