AdViewGlobal Members Continue To Question Surf’s Practices; PowerPoint Pitch Claims 37 Percent Conversion Rate If Sales Copy Doesn’t ‘Suck’
UPDATED 10:23 A.M. EDT (U.S.A.) AdViewGlobal (AVG) autosurf members again are complaining about “low” payout rates, confusion about debit cards and how best to fund accounts. They also are grousing about an absence of comprehensible guidance from the top.
Meanwhile, some members are grumbling about a culture of super-secrecy, a preoccupation by some leading advocates with spies and “plants” and passive-aggressive lectures from insiders who blame the company’s problems on members.
Some members have been clamoring for more “tools” to sell AVG’s surf and the “VIP” payout “opportunity,” viewing the “advertising” rotator as the Main Event and saying nonsurf products and services AVG recently introduced have little appeal to the surf crowd, despite claims AVG has “fortune 500” (sic) clients.
Other AVG members continue to complain about vague messages from the company.
A PowerPoint presentation produced by the company claims that 519 page views “should garner you in the neighbourhood of 37% conversion if not higher,” adding a strange disclaimer: “Given your sales copy doesn’t totally suck.”
The presentation includes charts and graphs, including one that speciously boasts of a “400% increase in Traffic!”
AVG “advertisers” pay to have their sites shown in what the company now describes as a “testing platform.” Because “advertisers” are paid incentives to view the ads of fellow “advertisers,” the quality of the traffic is dubious. The claim of a 37 percent conversion rate — and a claim elsewhere in the presentation of a 10 percent conversion rate — strains credulity.
The conversion rate claim of 37 percent implies it can be achieved across-the-board, regardless of the nature of the product, the quality of the traffic, the state of the economy, the demand for the product or the pricing of the offer. As the PowerPoint presentation stands, a doughnut priced free or a doughnut priced at $10,000 both could expect to enjoy a conversion rate of 37 percent, something absurd on its face.
Surf And Sun
AVG, which has been operating for about six months, also includes what it calls a two-year “Case Study of a BIG thinker.” Why a company that formally launched in February 2009 would choose to call events that have not happened a “case study” is left to the imagination. The “study” includes vague, speculative updates in six-month intervals, concluding with the subject of the two-year study “on the beach” and enjoying his autosurfing success.
As the “case study” subject is enjoying life at the shore and still doing his AVG surfing, the company challenges viewers to “do the math now” without providing any solid numbers that actually would permit members to do the math. The “case study,” for example, does not say how much the subject spent, describing his first purchase vaguely as an “initial quota of Advertising.”
Within six months, the subject — who appears not to do any recruiting — recovers “all of his costs + around 10 percent.”
Although AVG has released the PowerPoint presentation with the speculative, two-year “case study,” current members are grumbling that significant sums of money they sent the company for “advertising” are generating minuscule returns — chump change as opposed to beach money — and that downline members (and family members recruited into the program) are losing faith and having to square off against embarrassment for having joined.
Other Complaints
At the same time, members are complaining about the sudden removal of a member-to-member button that enabled them to move cash or cash-equivalents to other members. They also are complaining about a promotional video with a low-quality voiceover that smacks of amateurism and the company’s inability to solve problems that have dogged it for weeks.
Meanwhile, some AVG members have called for the company to make participation in a so-called 80/20 program mandatory, suggesting that trapping people’s money is the tonic AVG needs to succeed. If implemented, however, such a mandatory program could heighten concerns that AVG was trying to cover up a Ponzi scheme, selling unregistered securities and acting as a bank or financial-services company without a license.
Indeed, the mere existence of a nonmandatory 80/20 program is one of the hallmarks of an autosurf Ponzi scheme that is thumbing its nose at securities, wire-fraud and money-laundering laws. Such programs are designed to stem the outflow of cash — and outflow should not be an issue when a company claims it does not rely on funds from new members to pay older members.
The Accountability Equation
Perhaps the greatest AVG mystery of all is how the company, which purports to be a professional advertising and communications firm based in Uruguay, can send so many confusing messages.
Some of the incongruities border on the comic. Although the company purports to be operating from Uruguay, insiders routinely describe “international” members as those who live outside the United States. If AVG truly was operating from Uruguay, all members from any country other than Uruguay would be “international” members, including members who lived in the United States.
Stop Being So Stupid!
AVG promoters also have a curious habit of scolding fellow members. This habit is accompanied by awkward appeals for loyalty and aggressive, even paranoid appeals that stymie members who ask too many questions.
In March, AVG announced its bank account had been suspended. Incredibly, it blamed members in the very first sentence of its announcement for causing the problem.
“Due to people bank wiring too many transactions over $9500.00 each, the bank we were using for Bank Wires and ACHs suspended our account,” AVG said at the time.
Although AVG announced in May it had struck a deal that enabled members once again to wire money to the surf, one of the companies it identified as a facilitator of the wire transfers issued a public denial it had any business relationship with AVG.
AVG is engaged in a highly questionable “industry.” The U.S. government has destroyed several autosurf firms. Several government agencies have issued warnings about the autosurf trade in general, and the U.S. Secret Service issued a news release last year, noting that it had seized more than $93.5 million from Florida-based AdSurfDaily Inc.
AVG, which launched after the government seized ASD’s assets, has close ties to ASD. Unlike ASD promoters, however, AVG promoters used the surf’s purported offshore location to drive business to the company.
Readers,
I’m back for the day. Again, accuracy does not appear to be the strong point of this blog. But it is gettting better which is good news. I think that as AVGA moves forward, there will be too much good news for the admin here to keep posting negative articles.
There is grumbling and a very low VIP this week at AVGA, but that’s part of the growth curve. Nothing is guaranteed, especially the daily VIP at the the insistence of US government, the anti-autosurf crowd and AVGA.
AVGA is a young enterprise evolving daily. The admin here obviously has gotten early access to the AVGA Power Point Presentaion which is not complete and is still being polished. To my knowledge it was only released in the AVGA back office at the insistence of members who are eager for tolls. The voice on the PPP may be done over by a voice over professional. Admin has a very early sample with AVGA’s Donna Rougeau’s very tired and over-worked voice. I think calling her an amature is semi-accurate. She is not a professional voice actress. But no one knows the AVGA/SD business better than she does. I hope the admin was not implying that she is an Internet Marketing amature.
Admin fails to mention the relationship of AVGA and Syndicate Digital and the quality products which are now being sold by a team of sales professionals, not just paying members at AVGA. Is this relationship important and the accompaning outside income important to you the reader? Do you have any idea, through this blog, what AVGA now offers. Admin seems to want to demean AVGA/SD at every turn. Yet admin keeps the good parts from the reader.
As for the rest, as always, time will tell. I suggest you readers try to go beyond this blog for the entire truth about AVGA. Do not judge AVGA by what you see here today in this blog. As is almost always the case on the Internet, the writer appears to be trying to draw a crowd to this website with senational headlines and subheads, and does not appear to try to tell the entire, legal AVGA story.
Such is Internet pseudo-journalism in the year 2009. Focus in on a niche or subject to promote or perhaps destroy. Draw a crowd. Get a Google clicks. Make a few bucks and do it again tommorrow.
Thanks readers…have a nice day.
Readers,
As for being stupid, stupid is a point of view and a judgement call. One man’s stupid comment is another man’s way of saying, “the entire truth is not available on a forum or a blog”. Plants are on the forums to tag-team and stir-up trouble and I think every intelligent reader here knows that. Perhaps alledged members should “stop posting stupid comments” and not make it necessary to be told so on the forums. But, there are two sides to every story, and I could be wrong.
The Subtitle “Stop being so Stupid” was the quotation of a request made by one AVGA poster to another.
It is an AVGA quote. and it seems to have become the stock answer to any awkward questions or doubting remarks about the AVGA business.
Funny thing that. As a super legal and fast growing advertising business, you would imagine that AVGA would be only too happy to shout the news, with supporting data, from the roof tops.
No, wait. I forgot. It is a private/secret association. Silly me.
If this “program” lasts until Labor Day, I will be shocked. It’s following the script of all these scams to a “T”. Let’s hope law enforcement drops the hammer sooner rather than later so more people don’t lose money.
I’m betting Labor day as well. Hopefully sooner though. This is the most piss-poor run thing I’ve ever seen. At least ASD was an “Attractive” scam!
And yes AVGA is a SCAM AND A PONZI SCHEME.
Still waiting for a lawsuit……
db, you could not of said it better. One can strongly believe, avg from the beginning has been in the sights of the feds. All the flags are there, and then some. It will not be long. my former asd “sponsors,” now in avg, are in panic. At this point they are just trying to get their initial investment back from avg.
Oh come on Anonymous……..it’s a company in its “infancy stage!” LOLOL
People who put money in AVG deserve to lose it.
And why are the “members” questioning the returns? I thought it was an Ad company with no guaranteed returns?
Anonymous, remember, it’s not an “investment” !!
Hahah yeah, right! ssssshhhhhhh!
Readers,
Well there you have it readers. The choir has sung…err spoken, and now you know the entire AVGA story. They do appear to be a pretty uninformed bunch, except for Jenny S, don’t they. they laugh, they accuse and they make totally off the wall predictions. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. I’m not laughing at anyone though, because I could be wrong about AVGA. Thanks readers!
If you want to stand there looking for monkeys to fly out of my butt, be my guest. It ain’t gonna happen. AVG will collapse or get busted just like the rest. I am not going to keep a open mind when it comes to physical laws. AVG is toast sooner or later. If it gets past Labor Day, which I highly doubt, Christmas will take care of this scam. People will want to spend their 200% bonus and accrued interest. It ain’t gonna happen.
This “open mind” talk is also a hallmark of these scams.
Correction,
Since you seem to be pretty up on what’s going on over on the AVGA forum, please clarify something for me if you can.
Robbie referred that the reason for the low “VIPS” was because some people were caught “stacking and rolling” when using the m2m button. Now, if this button is legal why were the ones that were caught using it reprimanded?
Not to long ago I mentioned that this button could have many illegal uses and Terralyn scolded me and stated that it isn’t illegal. And that they are tweaking it to make it more ethical. Please clarify for me if you can. I would really appreciate your response.
Now, ain’t that funny:
The moderator of an autosurf forum using the word “ethical” when referring to practises used by members.
It does, however, give an insight into the belief system and morals of “Terralyn” who has now forever condemned herself to being identified as a “playa,” rather than having the “true believer” status she likes to portray.
Did I say something “informed”? lol. I heartily agree with all the other posters – there seem to be questions asked by the rank and file in AVGA which noone dared to do with ASD. This time round they have believed the Believers, but do at least know what questions to ask. It also seems that, with their investment returns being so low, they no longer feel the need to bow and scrape, but instead are asking relevant questions.
It leaves the question – who is stacking and rolling? and who has been kicked out. I wonder how long it will be before people start asking for the names of the “offenders” and how many of them really did get kicked out.
I am sure if the truth were known (which I doubt it will) they could be in for some surprises.
It is also noticeable that, this time round, they are not threatening to sue us all for our “libellous comments” lol
HI CORRECTION!
Welcome back! I appreciate your return — I won my bet.
In your absence, have you been able to come upi with the answers to the two simple questions that I continue to ask you, that you never answer?
In your style, I’ll write to the Readers. Readers, please note that CORRECTION! never answers (and never has) the two critical questions that are the lynchpins to whether or not AVG is sustainable and legal (ie not a Ponzi scheme). The two questions are:
1) Can you demonstrate significant external profits such that rebates (or whatever AVG calls them) are paid primarily from those sources, as opposed to being paid from new member money? (Readers, this is the sustainability question. AVG has linked up with SD, but as of yet there is no verifiable revenue, much less profits, associated with this alliance. What there is is a call to “trust us” without the data, sort of like “trust us, get rich quick schemes are real.”)
2) Did AVG pay out old members with new member money? The answer MUST be no if AVG is not a Ponzi scheme.
As to uninformed, I am uninformed as to your answers to these two questions that you refuse to answer. So come on, enlighten me (but you better bring data……)
I think I might have the answer…it might only be ethical for the “founders” to pull out money each and every time they choose, but are scolding the file and rank members for wanting to pull out money, thus the talk about making it mandatory to do the 80/20 or roll up 100%. Correction, if this is a legitimate company as you so want to believe, shouldn’t there be the money available to pay out everyone when they choose? Not just the “choosen” few.
If AVG has thieves and fraudsters on the inside, AVG should call the police and file a report.
AdSurfDaily had thieves and fraudsters on the inside — and Andy Bowdoin didn’t file a police report. Heck, more than $1 million came up missing from ASD, and Andy didn’t file a police report.
AVG members are grumbling right right now about theft and manipulation by other AVG members. AVG management should file a police report. Officers could come down to do the initial investigation, assess the situation, and alert the FBI and Secret Service about the thefts.
Yep. It sure looks like people were using the member-to-member button to commit fraud and engage in some textbook money-laundering.
AVG should report this to the authorities — you know, like Bowdoin should have.
Or . . . wait. Would having provided the button to begin with get AVG in trouble?
Or would routing transactions to itself through other companies/individuals accounts at banks get AVG in trouble?
Patrick
I think some people are missing an important point. If any surf doesn’t have outside revenue (and none do) then it’s a ponzi scheme, But even if they did have outside revenue that supported the rebate structure, if the rebates can POSSIBLY exceed 100%, they’re selling unregistered securities, which is still illegal, just another aw is being broken.
Correction,
If this is legitimate why not produce a certified financial statement.This would show company earnings.I would wager that there is not an accounting for the funds much less and an accountant. These types of companies financial practices are simple to analysis ,lIFO.In accounting lingo that means LAST IN FIRST OUT. In a ponzi scheme it means the last money in pays out to the first people in.The scheme is to get more people in so those who got in first can realize hugh rewards. Those in last are paying dearly.Ask those you get involved if AVG paid out nothing would they still purchase the expensive advertising. Especially from a company in Uruguay. If you are enticing others to get involved in a scheme such as this you have no more scruples than those who put it together.Those who are enticing others to become involved are scammers as well.You are who you associate with!
One thing to point out is this copyright legal mumbo jumbo is coming from a company that does not believe in the government nor government intervention but yet wants to use the US laws when it is convenient for them. But as Patrick stated, are they not in Uruguay? Is Uruguay’s time zone the same as EST here in the US? Seems that is the time they use for conference calls ect.
What I have found truly interesting is that when AVG, AGW, BAS all were announced, the big drawing cards were: 1. They were registered offshore, which they thought would protect them against the US regulatory agencies and law enforcement. 2. They were being run by professionals, and they had worked out all the problems that plaqued ASD. Supposedly this meant they already had in place sources of outside income. 3. And then AVGA forming an association thinking this was the magic pill they needed to avoid being subjec to US regulations and law enforcement agencies. Does taking advice from a convicted felon sound like “professionals” are running this as claimed?
The reality: Being offshore, and now forming an association, does not exempt anyone and the company from being subject to the US Authorities, and regulations. So much for being offshore and a private association. Just a lot of nice words that mean absolutely nothing. The outside sources of income do not exist, but they are working on them. This notion that you can start out illegal and then become legal will exempt you from selling unregistered securities is laughable. It is like saying I stopped robbing banks when I obtained enough money to open my own Certificate of Deposit so I could earn money legally, therefore I have not committed a crime now that I am legal. Tell it to the judge. The outside income had to be in place when they opened their doors for them to have an even remote chance of being legal.
But the really incredible one is this total imcompetence of the “professionals” running this sham. They can’t control insider thievery, they can’t communicate with the members, their sales products suck, and they all must remain anonymous. Can’t dare let anyone know who is really behind AVGA. That alone should scare the pants off everyone in light of what happened with ASD. After all I thought they had learned from the mistakes of ASD, and these professionals know what they are doing. They act more like the Keystone Cops than “professionals.”
Enertained, understand that CORRECTION cannot answer your two very simple questions. To do so would be admitting that AVGA is selling unregistered securities just like ASD. I guess AVGA is counting on the government agencies allowing them to keep doing a do over until they get it half-right at being legal. As db said, if they last until September it will be a miracle. I only give them until the end of July at the rate they keep shooting themselves in the foot.
I guess I don’t see what kind of message it sends if people like Terralynn, Mark Simmons, Barb McIntyre, etc. aren’t prosecuted for promoting these scams. I hope it does go down very soon and I hope we see some arrests shortly after…..
Correction,
It is time you come back and answer some of these questions. Really would appreciate some of your thoughts.
Thanks Gregg for reminding everyone that, even if they have outside income, AVGA cannot pay one cent more in rebates than they charge for advertising, without falling foul of the laws controlling the sale of unregistered securities.
With so much debate about paying old members with new members money, it seems to have been forgotten that for AVGA or any other autosurf to even begin to think of being legal, their advertising must have intrinsic value. And if anyone is trying to tell me that a click for a dollar on a site with less than a million viewers is “intrinsic value” then they must have money they wish to throw away (or they see it as an investment and not an investment of their advertising budget either)
Even ASD’s very own MLM expert, Gerry Nehra, has gone on record that for an MLM to be legitimate, over 50% of its sales have to be to non participating clients.
Correction, do you have any comments to make on this one?
Gregg,
I agree 100%. The presence of outside revenue is just part of the mathematical determination of the long-term viability of an enterprise (the Black Box). It says nothing wrt the legality….and AVG and its ilk are illegal (even if they magically come up with external revenue). Another question for CORRECTION! — if the AVG Ponzi promoters are smart enough to develop a business that does have sufficient external revenue to pay rebates, why in the h*&^ would they ever share that revenue as rebates? I sure wouldn’t……I’d bag the stupid, illegal surf aspect of the business and run the highly profitably external business…..
“AVGlobal Association is a private members association and all information published here in this newsletter and within the confines of the member back office area is for private member use only and reprint permission beyond member to member communication without prior written permission to republish is prohibited.”
Received another email blast from AVGA….it appears that they have removed all of the copyright garbage since they realized that there is no legal standing for claiming that it is copyrighted.
They must be keeping up with this forum Patrick, since the wording was changed within 12 hours.
Now they are complaining for no incentives paid yesterday, even though their ToS state that nothing is guaranteed. I would imagine that many people did not sleep well last night.