BULLETIN: USDA Conducting ‘Review’ Of Food Stamp Claims Made By MPB Today Affiliates; ‘We Take This Matter Very Seriously,’ Agency Says
BULLETIN: UPDATED 9:21 P.M. EDT (U.S.A.) The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has opened a “review” of claims made by affiliates of a Florida-based, multilevel-marketing company, the agency said late this afternoon.
Members of MPB Today, an MLM program owned by a Pensacola-based grocery seller known as Southeastern Delivery, have targeted recipients of Food Stamps in promotions for the MLM program.
The agency did not say precisely what claims it would check in its review. MPB Today claims in a video sales pitch that a “one-time” purchase of $200 in groceries from Southeastern can “totally eliminate” future grocery bills.
“We take this matter very seriously,” a USDA spokeswoman told the PP Blog. “We are reviewing the situation.”
In general, the spokeswoman said, the agency wants “to make a determination if any regulations are being violated.”
MPB Today operates a 2×2 cycler matrix that is coupled with the home delivery of groceries. As the PP Blog first reported yesterday, some MPB Today affiliates are advising Food Stamp recipients that the high shipping costs of home-delivered groceries from Southeastern Delivery provide a compelling reason for them to join the MLM program and recruit other members.
Other MPB Today members have produced check-waving videos, placing them on YouTube to drive business to the firm. One of the YouTube videos claims the MLM program is “Govt. acknowledged.” The video further claims that Walmart is “affiliated” with MPB Today.
Walmart has not responded to a request for comment from the PP Blog.
Southeastern’s shipping costs for home-delivered groceries may total 50 percent of an order, according to the MPB Today website.
A Food Stamp recipient with a $200 order with Southeastern would be spending up to $300 to gain the same $200 of purchasing power offered by a local, walk-in grocery retailer.
Because of the high shipping costs, the Food Stamp customer should join the MPB Today program to qualify for free shipping and MLM payments for getting others to join, an affiliate suggested in a promotional Blog post titled “Shop Online With Food Stamps.”
In a Blog post, one MPB Today affiliate claimed that Southeastern Delivery, MPB Today's parent company, had the "sole right" to accept EBT debit transactions for Food Stamps in its market area. (Red highlight added to screen shot by PP Blog.)
Southeastern is authorized to accept Food Stamps, according to a USDA database. One MPB Today affiliate, however, claimed that Southeastern had “the sole right in their area to accept EBT (equivalent to food stamps/card across the US.).â€
If the claim is true, it would mean that the government was favoring one local Food Stamp-participating retailer over another or creating a condition in which financially strapped consumers from Maine to California would be tempted to send their Food Stamp money to a Florida grocer that suggested a one-time payment could result in MLM riches that would end all food worries.
EBT is the government’s acronym for “Electronic Benefits Transfer” under the Food Stamp program, which is known as SNAP. SNAP stands for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, and is administered by USDA.
The affiliate’s claim that Southeastern had the “sole right” in its market area for EBT Food Stamp transactions is dubious. A USDA database shows that at least 25 stores within 2.39 miles of Southeastern’s immediate market area in Pensacola are authorized to accept Food Stamp transactions, including a Walmart that is less than a mile from Southeastern’s business address.
A federal database shows that at least 25 retailers in Southeastern's immediate market area are authorized to accept Food Stamp transactions.
There also are two Winn Dixie supermarkets within 1.2 miles of the address, according to the federal database.
The claim has led to questions about whether MPB Today affiliates were trying to steer nationwide business to Southeastern at the exclusion of authorized Food Stamp retailers that do not charge shipping fees, do not seek to solicit customers for an MLM program and may be more competitive on shelf prices.
Patrick: Now you’ve done it. Jim, WalkSimply, has called you out on the ASA forum. He thinks you are making all of this up. No YouTube video and no contact from the USDA. Here’s his comments, and I quote:
‘WalksSimply’ date=’03 September 2010 – 01:19 PM’ timestamp=’1283548776′ post=’336967′]
There are always some crazies out there. Luckily out of the tens of thousands who have joined MPBToday, these malcontents are very few. (Interesting that a Food Stamp card could actually work — this is NOT usual for such cards which are electronically coded NOT to be used for anything but groceries).
It is too bad Patrick Petty does not share the links to this blogger and also the YouTube promoter.
Those 2 affiliates would be quickly terminated by the Company.”
————————————————————————————
I have spent an hour or more google searching for such Blogs or You Tube videos with absolutely no Results showing what Patrick Petty claims is on some blog out there (perhaps the company was quickly informed and the stupid affiliate was reprimanded and cast out of the MPBToday). On the other hand it just could be Mr. Petty is that petty that he actually made this up. Either way let’s see PROOF of this stupidity. (rather than ranting about some fiction.)
and Mr. Petty is now reporting: “BULLETIN: UPDATED 8:16 P.M. EDT (U.S.A.) The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has opened a “review†of claims made by affiliates of a Florida-based, multilevel-marketing company, the agency said late this afternoon.”
— so where is the Link to this report of a USDA review? I mean like Associated Press or UPI.
— or did the unnamed agent just personally call Mr. Petty.
As they used to say in the commercial “Where’s the Beef?”
Jim”
Shame on you. LOL!
Oh,
well then,
it’s on the ASA forum, so it MUST be true.
And, if “Walk Simply” can’t find it, then it obviously doesn’t exist.
As for Mr “Simplys'” question as to how would Patrick know about a USDA review. That’s not how it’s done on “Boston Legal” or “Law and Order, HYIP ponzi Unit”, which is obviously where Mr “Simply” gets his legal experience, so that part of Patricks’ post must also be untrue.
Mind you, it WOULD be funny to imagine “Walk Simply” phoning the USDA and asking them to verify whether he is promoting a fraud on a HYIP ponzi forum and whether there is an investigation.
It is hilarious to watch them flip out when there scam is exposed.
The PP Blog stands behind its reporting. It received a call from USDA at 4:05 p.m. yesterday. The call lasted 10 minutes (and 23 seconds).
For now, the Blog is declining to publish the URLs and declining to name the USDA official.
It does not mean they do not exist, despite the seed “Walks Simply” is trying to plant at the Ponzi-pushing ASAMonitor forum.
On Thursday, the Blog published a screen shot of one of the YouTube videos promoting MPB Today. The shot plainly shows the “Govt. acknowledged” and Walmart “affiliated” claims. The Blog also identified one of the Blogs by title.
About the “Walks Simply” question of “where is the Link to this report of a USDA review? I mean like Associated Press or UPI.”
As noted above, the USDA called the PP Blog, based on its inquiry earlier this week. Our reporting is not based on something we first saw on the AP or UPI wires. It is based on our original reporting, which is why the USDA called us. AP and UPI perhaps don’t even know about it yet.
Perhaps “Walks Simply” could benefit from some of our reporting pertaining to ASAMonitor, MoneyMakerGroup and TalkGold. We have referenced them a number of times when their names have appeared in affidavits in criminal cases and civil lawsuits in Ponzi scheme cases.
Here is just one example:
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/05/31/kaboom-affidavit-in-pathway-to-prosperity-case-paints-picture-of-wanton-criminality-complaint-references-talkgold-asamonitor-moneymakergroup-posts-united-states-throws-down-gauntlet/
Well, let us provide another — one that shows that forum-promoted Ponzi cases have become the topic of discussion in Washington’s highest power corridors:
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/06/02/pathway-to-prosperity-case-a-subject-of-discussion-in-washingtons-highest-power-corridors-website-of-u-s-attorney-general-includes-link-to-case-info-as-part-of-mass-marketing-fraud-educational/
At a minimum, MPB Today has a significant PR problem right now. Its “program” is being pitched on known Ponzi forums. Meanwhile, affiliates are making liberal use of Walmart’s name, which also is referenced on the Ponzi forums.
Imagine being Walmart, a Walmart investor, a Walmart executive or a member of Walmart’s board of directors. Imagine the horror you might feel to see the wholesome brand in which you’ve invested billions of dollars being appropriated by posters on the Ponzi boards, including posters who are serial Ponzi players — all to gain MLM commissions.
Imagine seeing the Walmart name promoted on YouTube in a context you never imagined — as a purported “affiliate” of a 2×2 matrix cycler, one that is targeting Food Stamp recipients and people who were fleeced in the ASD Ponzi scheme.
Imagine being Walmart and learning that an MPB affiliate was planting the seed that one of the best uses of the Walmart gift cards MPB Today sends in the mail was to go to Walmart and convert the cards to Visa cards that spend like cash — this in an environment of one money-laundering probe after another in Florida.
MPB Today appears to be buying the cards in semi-large quantities at Walmart and then redistributing them to cycler winners. Affiliates are stressing the “gift” part, which suggests to us that the cash-gifting crowd is aboard the MPB Today train. How surprising would it be if claims surface that the “gift cards” do not constitute income because, after all, they’re gifts?
It is possible that Walmart will be concerned that MPB Today is using gift cards as a sort of way for MPB Today to make payroll for the MLM program. We have seen one video on YouTube in which an older couple actually filmed an envelope-opening ceremony with the check and the Walmart card emerging from the envelope and appearing on the screen.
There are a number of check-waving videos on YouTube for the MPB Today program. There also is a blog post that shows an image of a check from Southeastern Delivery LLC, along with a Walmart card — this in the Age of Identity Theft and theft of banking information.
Here is another question we have: How serious is MPB Today about selling groceries online if it is noting a shipping charge of up to 50 percent of the order and seemingly displaying a willingness to let Walmart get the actual grocery business by sending gift cards?
Some of the MPB affiliates are talking about grocery “vouchers.” That adds another layer of uncertainty.
What has happened so far with MPB Today is mirroring developments in the Narc That Car/DNA stories:
1.)Affiliates are planting the seed the programs are associated with the government.
2.) Affiliates are creating .org websites to plant the seed the MPB Today program is affiliated with a charity.
3.) Affiliates are planting the seed the program is tied to a major brand.
4.) Affiliates are planting the seed that Trump is on board. Trump’s picture appears on MPB Today’s website. So does a picture of Warren Buffet.
So, yes, a significant PR headache for MPB Today. And who knows what will happen after the USDA completes its review?
It is proper that USDA is reviewing this matter. The “Govt. acknowledged” claim alone is worrisome. Both the FTC and SEC recently have taken actions against companies/Internet marketers who’ve implied endorsements where they do not exist, including this case in which it is alleged that hucksters traded on the name of the President of the United States.
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/08/11/kaboom-ftc-says-medical-discount-hucksters-used-images-of-obama-words-from-congressional-speech-to-fleece-customers-receiver-already-has-seized-website-feds-states-launch-fraud-crackdown/
The case above is apt to remind longtime PP Blog readers about the ASD case. Andy Bowdoin also was accused of trading on the name of the President — for an alleged MLM Ponzi scheme.
Here is a case that evolved after a man running an alleged scam through a .org website was caught:
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/06/29/detectives-arrest-staten-island-man-for-bilking-clients-in-forex-scheme-thomas-carson-ran-org-site-allegedly-used-money-for-luxurious-lifestyle-cigars-treatment-of-varicose-veins/
The PP Blog does not know what USDA’s review will incorporate. It does know that the government recently filed a “false endorsements” case against Internet Marketers who were pitching Acai berry products:
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/08/16/bulletin-ftc-charges-central-coast-nutraceuticals-in-acai-berry-fraud-case-that-alleges-overbilling-and-fake-endorsements-from-oprah-rachel-ray/
It would seem prudent for affiliates of MPB Today to make themselves aware of these things — but who knows?
Not even two forfeiture cases, a racketeering lawsuit and an ongoing grand-jury criminal probe into ASD/Andy Bowdoin’s actions have stopped the serial Ponzi promoters at ASA Monitor and the other forums from promoting autosurfs, HYIPs and other “programs” such as 2×2 cyclers.
Not even the Secret Service probe into the Regenesis 2×2 cycler appears to have captured the serial promoters’ attention.
Not even a public announcement by the Justice Department that the Secret Service was infiltrating criminal forums as part of its intelligence-gathering efforts has stopped the serial promoters.
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/08/11/kaboom-vladislav-horohorin-arrested-in-france-on-u-s-warrant-after-undercover-operation-on-forums-secret-service-will-traverse-the-globe-in-pursuit-of-online-criminals-agency-says/
And not even the fact that Robert Hodgins is wanted by Interpol in a money-laundering and international narcotics case linked to an autosurf has stopped the serial promoters:
https://patrickpretty.com/2010/08/15/update-robert-hodgins-still-wanted-by-interpol-co-defendant-in-narcotics-probe-with-link-to-adsurfdaily-case-sentenced-to-prison-colombian-drug-business-used-same-debit-card-as-asd/
Patrick
Patrick, judging from the vitriolic response by “Walk Simply” over on the ASA ponzi promotion board, you have trodden on some very sensitive toes. A good ad hominem attack on one of your reports is usually a big juicy red flag.
If Microsoft panicked every time some one attacked them, they would have gone bancrupt years ago, because of the legal fees spent suing everyone who criticized them, but they seem to have struggled through and havent been shut down by the government yet. lol
Perhaps Mr. simply should contact the USDA and explain to them exactly what is wrong with Patrick’s comments and give them a few more details about how MPB works, with a few more “verified” facts.
Food scams are particularly repugnant, especially one involving Food Stamps, as they hit hardest those who can least afford to lose. A USDA review is a welcome move, whatever form it takes.
Hi Wishful Thinking,
At least “Walks Simply” didn’t focus on my perceived lack of physical beauty — like some of the Surf’s Up forum folks did — in between their promotions for various Ponzi schemes and the incubating and gradual flowering of their various conspiracy theories. :-)
As LRM notes above — and as you note in your comment — “Walks Simply” is posting on ASAMonitor. It is one of the most notorious Ponzi boards on the planet, a place from which international criminals suck wealth out of the United States and other countries by selling the dream of fabulous riches.
Me? I think a lot of the Ponzi wealth is circulating in Central America, South America, the Caribbean, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and New Zealand. I also think a lot of it is heading offshore through Canada.
While I’m on that subject, I also think that lots of shell companies in Florida and Nevada are providing the money-laundering conduits — and that lots of businesses are really just paper confections designed to “clean up” money and hide it from the authorities.
The principal incongruity of ASAMonitor is that, if one emerges as a program “expert” over there, one is identifying oneself as a purveyor of criminal and/or highly questionable pursuits.
The board has something that approaches a 100 percent record for failure. It is laughable — in an ironic sense — that ASAMonitor and the other boards have “scam” sections. Every autosurf/HYIP ever promoted over there has been a scam. Some have raked in hundreds of millions of dollars. Genius Funds alone got $400 million. ASD very well could exceed $100 million, given that the Feds seized close to that.
Yes, “Walks Simply” is doing some blustering. At the end of the day, however, he’s doing in on a Ponzi board, apparently in “defense” of MPB Today, whose 2×2 cycler matrix is being marketed from the same Ponzi board “Walks Simply” is using to do his blustering.
Here’s hoping that no money from Ponzi schemes pitched on ASAMonitor and the other Ponzi boards makes its way into MPB Today. Here’s also hoping that Food Stamp money also is not somehow being mixed with money used to pay MLM commissions. The affiliate checks for MPB Today are being written on Southeastern Delivery’s name — and Southeast is listed as an authorized Food Stamp retailer.
Here are some things I do not know:
* If Food Stamp recipients who buy groceries from Southeastern and use their benefits card to do it become MPB Today sales affiliates eligible to receive MLM commissions from the 2×2 cycler.
* If MPB Today has an actual product — and, yes, I am aware that the affiliates say the product is groceries.
I’m just not sure if the product actually is groceries if Walmart gift cards are being dispensed as a sort of fail-safe against Southeastern’s high shipping costs. Because the word “voucher” also has been used, which has a specific meaning in the context of food, can MLM enrollees who opt not to purchase groceries from Southeastern but instead accept a Walmart gift card be considered “grocery” customers — especially when the card is a piece of plastic that is redeemable for nongrocery merchandise and even can be used to acquire a prepaid Walmart Visa card, according to an MPB Today affiliate.
Even if the card is used to buy groceries at Walmart, I am having a hard time understanding how that qualifies as a grocery purchase from Southeastern and the MPB Today MLM program. I’d say it is virtually impossible for Southeastern, which is shipping the cards, to monitor how they are being used after the fact.
Walmart, it seems, would have an interest in knowing just how many cards Southeastern/MPB Today are purchasing and how they are being used.
Now, I am aware that MPB Today is not an autosurf — but autosurfs are infamous for “paying” via debit cards. That’s one of the reasons autosurf accounting is always a mess — and also one of the reasons that the surf “industry” players like the debit card: it is used in such a way to keep income off the books.
My guess at this point is that many MPB Today affiliates will ignore the tax ramifications of gift cards used in this context. They will persuade themselves that the gift cards are actually their ordinary household expense for groceries — except in some cases (perhaps many or most), they didn’t buy groceries from Southeastern; they bought a piece of plastic and reimagined it as a grocery purchase.
It seems to me that Southeastern also is reimagining the cards as grocery purchases. I don’t know if that dog will hunt if the cards are not specifically limited to the purchase of groceries.
But how could that be the case when the Walmart cards are redeemable for purchases of TVs and computers and cell phones and analgesics? And how can that be the case when the affiliates themselves also are saying the gift cards can be converted at Walmart to prepaid Visa cards?
A prepaid Visa can be used for virtually any purpose. At the same time, a gift card that is not converted to a Visa debit card is not being used to purchase groceries if it is being used to purchase a TV or lawnmower.
In other words, a TV is not a tomato. That’s why I’m having trouble understanding what Southeastern is selling. It seems to be reselling Walmart gift cards and calling it a grocery purchase.
Patrick
It truly amazes me how some people have a total lack of understanding. When I joined MPB I actually purchased $200 worth of Groceries.I Didn’t make an investment in anything except for groceries.I decided not to order my groceries immediately because I could eliminate the shipping charges or exchange my grocery credit for a $200 Gift Card that would allow me unrestricted shopping by referring 2 new customers to the program and helping them each introduce 2 new customers to the service as well.My efforts caused the company to gain six new customers ( the company didn’t have to spend a dime to gather these customers)Based on cause and effect the people are rewarded quite handsomely for their efforts in the form of a $300 check and $200 More in groceries.Thus eliminating our out of pocket expense for food!In my humble opinion this is the greatest plan to help people get off the food stamp program by helping them learn how to eliminate their out of pocket expense through recommendation. It’s a sad day in America to call this a Scam by any means, especially when so many are in dire straits trying to cut their basic cost of living expenses.On the other hand there are many well to do folks who really can’t afford to spend their time in a grocery store so they would rather pay for the convenience of having them shipped to their door in spite of the “cost”. Let’s not forget about the elderly or the disabled or the shut ins who have a hard time even getting to the store,what are you doing to help them?If anything is a scam it’s the banking cartels that create money out of thin air in the form of digits on a computer screen then call it money.Then they charge you interest on this so called money. The funny thing is they don’t actually print any interest money to pay it back with. Now that is a real ponzi scheme that robs the people blind. Wake Up America It’s Time For A real Change wouldn’t you agree.
bentontruth: Do you have any idea of how quickly you run out of people to join this “opportunity” in a 2×2 matrix? So what do you all do when you run out of people at the 8th level since they don’t ship overseas, to Canada, or South America? That means that everyone in the US is in this ‘opportunity’ 8 levels deep. Get the idea why this is all smoke and mirrors? If you can’t cycle, you don’t get paid. Get it now?
According to the South Eastern Delivery web site, they only deliver to “Pensacola, Ensley, Cantonment, Pace and Gulf Breeze”. Mark, do you live in those areas and are therefore able to have your groceries delivered by this company? I wonder how much it would cost to ship typical groceries to New York, if the company would do it.
Right, so you are only interested in getting your gift card and getting your commission. You are only interested in getting the money.
The groceries delivery is merely a diversion, it is meaningless, in the same way the car number plate database was meaningless with NarcThatCar and DNA.
I’m sure it is a sad day for the pyramid promoters when something like this is called a scam. Afterall, the claims made by a pyramid promoter have now started what might be a federal investigation into this pyramid scheme. As for the shipping costs, I am still dubious about the claim of “up to 50% shipping charge”. I can find no evidence of this, can you?
I’m sure these vulnerable people have not been forgotten by the pyramid promoters, and will be treated as an easy mark. There have been numerious pyramid & ponzi schemes over the years that have targeted the vulnerable. Noobing targeted the deaf, so your pyramid scheme targeting the elderly or the disabled will be par for the course.
Ah, the “big business is a scam” excuse. One of the classic excuses used to justify pyramid schemes. At least you didn’t use the old “Social Security is a Ponzi” excuse. Maybe next time, eh Mark?
Hello bentontruth,
I want to make sure I’m reading this correctly.
You’re saying you “actually purchased $200 worth of Groceries” when you joined MPB. But, at the same time, you’re saying you decided “not to order my groceries immediately because I could eliminate the shipping charges or exchange my grocery credit for a $200 Gift Card.”
How does the exchange of a grocery “credit” for a gift card translate into a grocery purchase if the gift card can be used to purchase nongrocery items?
That’s why I am having trouble understanding what MPB Today is selling. Your post implies it sells groceries and/or a grocery credits. If one opts for the credit, it comes in the form of a Walmart gift card. Is that what you mean?
I just don’t see how a Walmart gift card packaged as a grocery credit constitutes a purchase of groceries — not when the card can be used to purchase other things. That’s why I’m not sure MPB Today has an actual product. If I am reading you correctly, it appears to be reselling Walmart gift cards by calling them grocery credits.
Southeastern Delivery is in the grocery business. It is an approved Food Stamp retailer. Groceries are big business in the United States. The trade is highly competitive, which is why I’m having a hard time understanding why Southeastern Delivery appears to be so willing to hand off money to Walmart.
It is clear to me, at least, that some MPB affiliates are using MPB Today’s high shipping costs to scare customers into not buying groceries at Southeast, but to accept the Walmart gift card as a substitute. That’s why I question how serious Southeastern actually is about competing on the national stage. It appears perfectly happy to funnel money to Walmart, a grocery competitor.
What is in it for Southeastern if it is sending so much business to Walmart? At a minimum, this practice causes me to think that the cycler, not the groceries, is the real product.
Even if Southeastern provides free grocery shipping to matrix members as an inducement to join the matrix, it still is providing the gift card option — unless I’m reading you incorrectly. Why not keep all the cash for itself instead of handing $200 off to Walmart? I am just not understanding that.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of MPB affiliates (matrix members) are using Southeastern for grocery purchases, compared with the percentage that is opting for the gift card. I think that number would be telling. My guess — and its only a guess — is that the vast majority of matrix members are opting for the gift card, which appears to be convertible to cash.
If that proved to be the case, then I believe MPB Today could have a rough time explaining that groceries are its product. A rational argument can be made that it is reselling/reimagining Walmart gift cards, perhaps without the authority of Walmart, and calling it a grocery purchase.
It seems to me that MPB understands that this argument could be potentially damaging and has anticipated it being made. There is a disclaimer on the MPB Today website that the company is a “customer” of Walmart.
Are Walmart customers permitted to resell Walmart gift cards or use them as a sort of repackaged grocery voucher? Southeastern is collecting the $200 for a purported grocery or grocery-credit purchase. It is in the grocery business, but is handing off $200 at a time to Walmart.
I just do not understand why a grocery company would be so willing to hand off $200 at a time to Walmart.
Personally, I do not believe that MLM is the remedy for poverty, any more than I believe the lottery is the remedy for poverty. I do believe that America is a nation of entrepreneurs, though.
On a side note, I’ve seen a number of MPB Today affiliates talking about making money from the “recommendation.” Just to be clear, what “recommendation” really means in this context is “successful sale” and then other successful “sales” across the chain.
It is my belief that the vast majority of folks who join MPB Today either will break even or lose money. Cyclers are exceptionally vile and, in my view, are far from a rising tide that will lift all boats. The vast majority of the members will be treading water if not giving up altogether from fatigue caused by treading water.
In my humble opinion, the folks who have tied this to the Food Stamp program potentially have made a catastrophic mistake — especially if it later emerges that Food Stamp money somehow has been used to pay MLM commissions.
I have not seen any proof of that, but it is definitely something to think about — in my view. Food Stamp money is allocated to fill stomachs, not to line a 2×2 matrix cycler.
Also, I don’t even pretend to understand why an Internet Marketer even would pitch this program to Food Stamp recipients — unless they were trying to sucker them into a matrix. The prohibitive shipping charges alone means Food Stamp (and other) members would have to go out of pocket more than $200, thus robbing them of purchasing power.
I’m not sure the Walmart cards are a good trade because of the need to fill the matrix with recruits, and plenty of people in the MLM universe won’t even touch a 2×2 matrix.
Frankly, I believe some marketers are using the high shipping charge as a decoy to suck people into the matrix. Join the matrix. Get FREE shipping or take the Walmart card — all to earn the right to sell the program.
One of the things I’m doing to help them is producing a Blog that urges caution when joining online programs and publishing information on some of the strangest fraud cases the world has ever known.
Is this why any number of MPB Affiliates are themselves calling the program a scam? Lots of them are calling it a scam to drive traffic to their websites — and then explaining it’s not really a scam and that the word “scam” was used simply to get the attention of prospects. The message changes from “This is a scam” to “This is not a scam. Here’s my affiliate link.”
Why are you making a political statement in a business discussion? Why are you referencing the banking industry when MPB Today is operating a 2×2 cycler matrix tied to a grocery business — in a business sphere known as MLM?
Patrick
I agreed to this man or woman says. i am stand right beside bentontruth.
and patrick should looking at this your life at danger http://theintelhub.com/2010/08/30/control-of-food-supply-to-be-handed-over-to-department-of-homeland-security/
Now it clear who they are selling this scam to. People who believe in most ridiculous conspiracy theories will buy into any Ponzi if it is “presented” in “right way”.
Interesting names chosen by the proponents of questionable schemes, don’t you think? Maybe I should change mine to “ImNotLying”, thereafter, everything I say, no matter how fabricated or erroneous, will be taken as fact. So what if these two nimrods have the word “Truth” in their screen names. It changes nothing about the content or collusion involved in MPB.
And yes, food related frauds are greatly heinous, and those promoting and participating in them need to be put in prison, and made to eat their own products!!
oh, and “truthboy”, perhaps you will also be standing beside this individual in a line-up or as a defendant… ever think of that??
There have been some very interesting comments concerning the story of the “alleged” misdoings of some of the independent associates of MPB Today.
If Mr.Pretty had done a thorough search of both MPB Today and Southeastern Delivery LLC http://southeasterndelivery.com/index.php he would have reported all the relevant facts to this story.
I will do that for you.
* Southeastern Delivery LLC has a local delivery range and charges $12.50 for the service for those local area of Florida’s panhandle and southern Alabama.
Nationwide delivery is paid by the customer unless they have shown others who have joined in the program. The food stamp or EBT is for those with limited incomes due to age or disability or under employment for their local delivery area. I don’t know of anyone who couldn’t afford $12.50 to have their food delivered. It is a blessing to those home bound. Not everyone gets into the MPB Today end of this enterprise.
* One thing you failed to mention is the complete cycle is six individuals signed up they received free shipping on the prepaid grocery receipt from signing up* or they can choose to exchange that prepaid receipt for the Walmart Gift card of $200.00 plus an addition $300.00, and an additional $200.00 prepaid grocery receipt held in their back office for the next cycle.
* If the Walmart gift card is an issue it is always a choice of the independent associate to donate that card to a local church or food pantry for the purchase of food to help those in need.
I cannot see a negative to this system in that people buy groceries, everyone who works educating people about what this is not is what is making it successful.
In this section I will tell you what it is not as there was mention of ponzi-scheme, pyramid scheme.
* ponzi scheme:
–noun
1. An investment swindle in which high profits are promised from fictitious sources and early investors are paid off with funds raised from later ones.
* pyramid scheme:
–noun
1. A fraudulent moneymaking scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to others above them in a hierarchy while expecting to receive payments from people recruited below them. Eventually the number of new recruits fails to sustain the payment structure, and the scheme collapses with most people losing the money they paid in.
It is the narrow lack consciousness of those who have heard of or been one of those affected by the two systems listed above. Contempt prior to investigation leaves you in ignorance.
There is a way for everyone who buys groceries to join MPB Today and not loose a dime. But to gain a feeling of satisfaction for meeting their needs and helping others to do the same.
Just for your information every business entity is a pyramid not MPB Today, and even where you work, can you tell me that you will ever surpass the owner in wages earned? That answer is an unequivocal no.
Blessings to you on your journey through this day.
Megan McAuley
Eloquently or not, it’s still promoter-speak. Who are you, exactly, to be pontificating? I have a far deeper regard for Patrick than I do for yopu and/or your fellow “Entrepreneurs”, whose definition is ‘one who organizes, manages, and assumes the risks of a business or enterprise’. Seems the clients are assuming more risk than the organizers. At least they won’t be going to jail along with the organizers.
Gary Calhoun has a long and not so bright history, perhaps this time he will be successful, at least until he gets shut down. All the marketing mumbo-jumbo not withstanding, a hole is still a hole no matter who digs it. Please continue digging.
Megan,
One very simple question, if you will. Where exactly do the funds come from to pay the $500 to the person who cycles?
Hello Megan,
Last week, more than 9,000 people showed up at the Palm Beach County Convention Center in Florida. They were hoping to gain mortgage relief.
Not a single person in that crowd could afford to spend $12.50 for a local grocery delivery — or, as FLORIDA-based MPB Today says it charges — up to 50 percent of the order for national shipping costs. If a person ordered $200 worth of groceries for national shipping, he or she could lose up to $100 in purchasing power.
Many — if not most — of the folks in West Palm Beach were impossibly upside down on their homes and at high risk for foreclosure. Any expense to enjoy the perceived convenience of home-delivered groceries puts them at even greater risk.
And yet those folks are being targeted by MPB Today? Why? Why are victims of the AdSurfDaily Ponzi scheme also being targeted?
Do you think it’s a coincidence that people down on their luck are being targeted in ads for MPB Today? Do you think the fact they are being asked in ads to recruit other people into the matrix with the suggestion of free food for life is a coincidence?
In 2001, I covered a mortgage scam that led to hundreds of foreclosures. The problem was so bad that the state attorney general set up a temporary office in the local courthouse to take complaints from people who had been fleeced by corrupt brokers, appraisers and notaries public.
The state ended up filing lawsuits and multiple court actions. The Feds ended up filing criminal charges. Two people went to prison. At least four companies were shut down. One of the brokers acquired a Rolls-Royce with proceeds from the scam. The Feds seized it.
Not a single person fleeced in that scam could afford home-delivered groceries. Had MPB Today been operating in 2001, however, that’s exactly who it would be targeting. Why?
I interviewed dozens of victims of the mortgage scam. Some of them had very little food. Every one of them had nightmarish financial problems because of the corrupt deals. One of them was a widow. The “contract” for her loan was “signed” by her husband. There was a problem with that: He was dead.
The scammers set up a number of bogus companies to pull off the scam. They used virtual offices. They drained every last dime from the victims, one of whom was a World War II vet who had no legs. Yes, even a World War II vet confined to a wheelchair was a “mark.”
Prior to his death, things got so bad for him and his wife that the local church and military groups pitched in to provide them an existence that at least was tolerable. I am sure that Food Stamps made the difference between eating and not eating.
When I hear the dire drum beat in the MPB Today pitch and see the word “Foreclosure” flash on the screen, it causes me to think about the crowd of more than 9,000 that showed up in West Palm Beach.
And it also causes me to think about the widow and the World War II vet with no legs. It also causes me to think about the scores of people who showed up at the courthouse when the attorney general set up a temporary office. Agents were copying documents so fast and so furiously that the copy machine overheated and shut down.
Bill collectors repeatedly called the victims. One of the collectors threatened to repossess a dog owned by one of the victims. This particular victim was working a minimum-wage job to keep a roof over her head. She did not even know there was a mortgage on her house. Her ex-boyfriend, who was in jail, worked with a corrupt broker to mortgage the house. He showed up one day with a dog — purportedly a gift for the victim’s daughter.
He “financed” the dog with the corrupt proceeds of the mortgage; that’s why the bill collector’s threatened to repossess the dog. The woman did not know she had a mortgage until the bill collectors started to call.
These folks — the victims as a group — could barely afford groceries, let alone home-delivered groceries and an MLM fee, however sleight, for a replicated website. A sum of $12.50 — and perhaps especially a sum of 50 percent of the order for DELIVERY — would have made all the difference in the world to these folks.
I’d say that many of these folks would have been sorely tempted to spend their Food Stamp money or their nonexistent disposable income for a $200, “one-time” grocery purchase that gave them a chance to “totally eliminate” future grocery bills. They were desperate. Their situation was “dire” defined.
Lots of MLMers don’t like this Blog because it tells the other side of the story. I get lots and lots of criticism from readers. It’s easy enough to live with when you’ve been in the home of a World War II vet who had no legs — and observed that the handicap-accessible bathroom he hired “contractors” to install did not have a door wide enough to accommodate his wheelchair. The pipes in the bathroom were exposed to frigid air. They froze during the winter after being installed. The “contractors,” a sham crew hired by the corrupt broker, disappeared with all the money, leaving a World War II vet who had no legs without a bathroom he could use.
I’ll conclude with a final, brief story. I was in the home of a widow who was fleeced in the mortgage scam. The reason I was there was because she woke up on Easter Sunday morning to find it raining in her bedroom.
The phone rang repeatedly as I sat at her modest — and I do mean modest — kitchen table. I could hear the bill collector yelling at her through the receiver. She was in tears. She hung up. He called again — immediately and repeatedly. The widow later was taken to the hospital. She had a panic attack. Another widow had a heart attack.
Megan, the collector was trying to collect on a loan “signed” by a dead man — AFTER the date of his death. All in all, the scammers fleeced more than 300 financially strapped homeowners in similar fashion. Many of them were in their 70s. Some were in their late 70s and early 80s. One of the victims had a ninth-grade education. He was functionally illiterate.
As noted above, some of the victims did not even know they had loans. Each of the victims was a person of modest means. They were the “prey” — and the scammer-in-chief was tooling around in a Rolls-Royce and stockpiling cash in his back office while it was raining in the bedrooms of widows and World War II vets who had no legs could not even use the bathrooms in their house.
Naturally, the scammer-in-chief threatened to sue me. I had my tires slashed twice while I was reporting on the mortgage scam. I was never sure if it was just a coincidence. In any event, the editors were concerned about my security. I went to the police twice during the course of events to keep them posted on things.
In 2002, I received awards for Investigative Reporting and Public Service from the Associated Press for my series of stories on this scam. It was nice to be recognized by my peers, and the newspaper was pleased.
I am being sincere, Megan, when I tell you I am pretty good at research. I’m also decent at connecting the dots. I’m also fortunate in the sense that a good number of my readers are experts in particular facets of research on scams. Facts do not emerge all at once; they emerge over time.
And I’m also being sincere when I tell you that my mother died in 2002. One of the people who attended her funeral was the widow of the World War II vet who had no legs. She was there to honor my mother, herself a widow, and it was the greatest honor of my life.
Patrick
I just don’t see how a Walmart gift card packaged as a grocery credit constitutes a purchase of groceries — not when the card can be used to purchase other things.
Indeed Patrick…..especially when they can easily be counterfit cards.
I know the point you are making here, Whip — but I doubt that these cards are counterfeit.
It seems probable that they are being purchased at retail and being redistributed at retail, which only adds more questions.
I believe it highly unlikely that Walmart would provide a bulk discount on gift cards. Any discount turns into a loss for Walmart.
If history is any guide, perhaps the next thing we’ll hear from MPB Today affiliates is that the company is employing some kind of “loss leader” strategy.
Patrick
But they could be stolen. Or they could be being bought with funny money like those v-money cards.
Yes that is on the list of the usual excuses, but I’m hoping that that we’ll get the one about the reptile aliens taking over the government.
I don’t see that on the Southeastern web site. I know some people may be shocked, but I think the “upto 50% delivery charge” is a lie. Shocking, a pyramid scheme promoter lying just so they can rope people in.
Quick note: I forgot to mention in my comment to Megan that the mortgage fraudsters described above got caught because a pitchman and advertisements made a catastrophic mistake:
They said the program was “HUD Approved,” when it was not.
Patrick
Tony,
You don’t mean the reptilian aliens whose anticipated visit was the subject of secret legislation passed by the Congress and signed secretly by President Clinton a few years before President Bush planned the 9/11 terrorist attacks, do you?
And you don’t mean the reptilian aliens who came to the fore AFTER President Kennedy was assassinated for exposing the banking conspiracy and BEFORE FEMA started setting up death camps, do you?
Patrick
I’m not Tony, but I know the answer to this one…..YES! Do I get a blue ribbon for getting it right?
We nearly got a mention of the “Illuminati” when someone mentioned that Homeland Security are trying to take over the food supply [no evidence except on crack pot conspiracy sites]. As we all know, the “Illuminati” really control Homeland Security [I just made that up], so it is really the shape shifting reptile aliens that are trying to take over the food supply. I really hope that one of the pyramid supporters use that excuse.
For knowledge on the reptile aliens you should consult the Great Oracle – David Icke. In an interview in 1999 “The Biggest Secret” he has tracked the alien bloodlines to 5000B.C.
http://www.metatech.org/david_icke_and_reptilians.html
You also forgot to mention that the mortgage industry is still operating in fraud. I will allow you to research that,
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/mortgage_fraud.htm
The lenders commit fraud by not having the funds on had for the transaction, how they achieve it is through the monitization of your signature via the Social Security number. Which makes you supplying the funds for your on mortgage which they make you pay back 3 times over.
You need to do more research on all fronts.
Blessings
Megan
Megan,
Are you also in the credit-repair business, by any chance?
The reason I ask is because one of the ASD folks claimed that $21 dollars in “silver coinage” taken to a courthouse in Missouri could undermine a bank’s interest in a property.
Another ASD member holds the unusual distinction of having been banned from the practice of law in Colorado — even though he wasn’t an attorney.
He also holds another unusual distinction: He was a bogus “arbitrator” for a bogus “Indian” tribe that formed a bogus “Supreme Court” that listed its address as the address of a doughnut shop in Utah.
He was in the credit-repair business.
Patrick
The point Patrick made about promoters being the ones whose claims brought a fraud to the attention of law enforcement is well taken. The fact that that fraud was in the mortgage industry, rather than the grocery industry is not specially significant to this reader.
Yes Megan, the mortgage industry still has a lot of rotten businesses in it, and the Government has made it clear that it will do everything in its power to pursue the perpetrators of these frauds. However this article was addressing a possible grocery fraud.
I am sure that Patrick will be very grateful for your permission to do further research into mortgage fraud.
Blessings
Shucks, I knew the answer to that one too, but Lynn beat me to it. YES those are the right aliens, and they are GREEN! Guess it takes longer for post from far away to get through. lol Are you trying to tell us that they are involved with Walmart and the Food Stamps program too?
Wow….you people really have nothing do ya?
Well I guess Amway must be a scam, and Ambit Energy and At&t, Melaluca, all networking companies are a scam and a pyramid. But Climbing the corporate ladder inside of a pyramid is Not? The whole world is built on a pyramid structure. Every one who has a job is caught in a pyramid. No matter how you cut the mustard their is only one person sitting on top and if you don’t own it it wont be you. The difference with MPB system is If I want to work harder at gathering customers I can make more than the person who brought me in. Is that how it works at your Job? Not likely, you are most likely a part of a socialist system that rewards everyone the same no matter if they produce more or not.No wonder the socialists are envious and would rather try to knock the people who cause “Currency to Circulate”. So If showing someone how to better spend their money and time in a more productive way is a crime then it truly is all a lost cause for America. Welcome to ussa.
Ummn,
a pyramid “SCHEME” is not the same as a pyramid shaped business structure.
The important part as far as lawmakers are concerned is the “SCHEME” part of the descriptive term “pyramid SCHEME”
That would be pyramid selling SCHEME as in “endless chain” scheme.
Having clarified that little bit of fraudster initiated obfuscation, perhaps then we can move on to the OTHER elements of “SCAM” which exist in the MPB Today offering/s.
I’m just surprised we have not heard: “When you are going to investigate Social Security because it is the biggest Ponzi of all time?” mantra.
Darn it, Lynn… I was just going to mention the Social Security thing.
Oh, and “bentonidiocy”, yes, the majority of the companies you just mentioned have ran afoul of the legal system at one time or another, especially Amway. Did you forget that? Seems Gerald Nehra isn’t that good of a legal mind after all.
I fully expect you and “truthboy” to continue your drivel. You believe what you will. Time will tell. And yes, I also believe in NESARA!!! (not)
[…] grocery company known as Southeastern Delivery LLC. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) said Friday that it was conducting a “review” of affiliate claims. Precisely what claims USDA will […]
Hi, I joined MPB Today and am not a newcomer to Network Marketing.
This attempt to disgrace the company is shameful.
Grocery delivery is a NEEDED service for many people including myself.
I have 3 toddlers and it is not fun to grocery shop and I do not have help with my children.
The pay plan is incredible and you are not paying MONTHLY like other companies where you are lucky to EVERY break even. Do the math. $30-$100+ autoship over 12 months compared to a ONE TIME grocery purchase or even a $200 investment!
You might as well say EVERY business is a ponzi or some sort of scam. The truth of the matter is they are not.
This is a real business, company, service, and opportunity for the average person.
You claim food stamp recipients and elderly are targeted. Why shouldn’t they if the food stamp recipients can GET OFF of food stamps by building the business and the elderly can have their groceries delivered to their doors.
I do NOT see a problem with that.
I do not market directly to any one group, however, I feel this is a good biz for everyone.
Why not post a blog with suggestions that would help make the business better if you are so concerned?
Much success to all MPB Today members and their families.
Should have thought about that before you had your ‘burdens’.
Right, so you are at the bottom of the pyramid and you’ve played pyramid schemes before.
What is shameful? Is trying to profit from the needy shameful? How about trying to profit from the seriously ill? Is that shameful enough? Gary Calhoun has and is doing just that as shown by the FDA letter.
The grocery delivery is irrelevant. It’s a 2×2 Cycle matrix – it’s a pyramid scheme.
——
“This attempt to disgrace the company is shameful.” – That’s nearly the “you are jealous of the success of this company” justification.
“Why not post a blog with suggestions that would help make the business better if you are so concerned?” – almost the “why don’t you target the real ponzi/pyramid scams out there” distraction.
Speaking of math,
just how DOES a 2 X 2 matrix work, Ms Member ????
Real businesses don’t promote themselves all over the HYIP and ponzi forums and any other network marketing forums. They advertise to the general public to sell their goods and/or services. MPB is not a food retailer, it is not a reseller for Walmart either. It seems to be a recently started food delivery service with very high delivery charges, opearting as an MLM scheme. The corporate details on their website are negligable and the site itself is very poor when comparing it to the average site selling groceries over the internet. If that isn’t enough for you, it is being run by a man with a prior history of trying to scam seniors.
Nobody is going to get off Food Stamps by joining an MLM and even less by joining a 2×2 matrix. The only people who are going to make any money out of this are the founders, the “leader board” and the very early promoters – none of whom will be on Food Stamps anyway. THEY will have just arrived from their previous MLM, with or without a healthy bank account, depending on their success with that one (how early they got in and how big their downline was) Remember that even the “network marketing” industry recognises that there is a failure rate of over 95% in MLM. So this 95% will undoubtedly be the needy people on Food Stamps that you reckon MPB will help.
It was bad enough when these people promoted lotions and potions or dodgy investments, but to target people who need Food Stamps and seniors is a new low.
I have no investment in MPBtoday. I am a past employee of Gary Calhouns. I will not hurl insults nor will I inform current participants of your inability to see past the $$ signs.
What I will do is give you a warning. Things with Gary are never as they seem. History does (and unfortunatly will)repeat itself and you will become one of a number of thousands of people who will be let down and out.
Due diligence people. Look at his history. It’s easy enough to find very honest people, just like yourself, to speak to about their experiences with his past companies. A lot of people believed in him, including his employees, only to realize that the real man is not who you thought he was. And the promises are hollow.
Good luck to every single one of you.
Hey Everybody,
I’m new to this blog and wanted to say that it is very well put together and displays well-developed thoughts and opinions from many of the commentators as well as the admin.
I have been with MPB Today for only a few weeks and I’m sorry that the actions of the few could have detrimental effects for the many.
It is clearly written in the terms and procedures that representatives are prohibited from showing their check and earnings to prospects. For the members who are clearly breaking these terms and conditions, I hope they are dealt with in the appropriate manner by the company.
As far as the whole food stamp ordeal I think that there is some confusion. There are people (independent reps) saying that you can buy vouchers from MPB Today with an E.B.T. card, but that is not true. You can only use the E.B.T. card through MPB’s parent, Southeastern Delivery. And I can understand the argument that there ARE people out there that can’t afford the delivery charge. But, there are some people who can.
For the individuals who have brought attention to Mr. Pretty and his blog, the only thing I can really say is that these are just the actions of the few and not the many. Unfortunately, that is the downside with this type of business. Sometimes it’s hard to control the individual actions of certain reps, etc. Especially, with the claims of being “Govt. Approved,” “Walmart Affiliated,” and the whole Obama cartoon, I think they should be dealt with and terminated from the company. I also agree that MPB should do some PR damage control and issue a statement about each of these incidents.
There has been some confusion on how the whole process works, as well. When you join MPB Today, you’re buying a $200 Grocery Voucher to order $200 worth of groceries online. You can use this voucher right away and order your groceries to have them delivered to your home and pay for the shipping OR you can qualify (by personally referring two people who personally refer two people) and get free shipping on your online grocery order.
When someone qualifies, then there is another option to exchange the $200 grocery voucher for a $200 gift card.
As far as the “In-store credit,” I haven’t received any of those and each card I have received has been a gift card. So, this is the first I’m hearing about it.
In terms of the 2×2 matrix, each person automatically follows their sponsor from matrix to matrix. So, the more people that one personally sponsors, the more people are linked to them and their new matrix once they cycle. So, if I help one of my personally sponsored cycle, then their new cycle will start in the next available position in my current cycle.
I hope that helped clear up some of the confusion and I wanted to thank you all for letting me share my opinion on this blog. I hope Mr. Pretty keeps up the good work and I will be more than happy to answer any of your questions.
Thank You!
Thanks Joel,
One question that the MPB members have yet to answer on this blog is this: When a person cycles in the 2×2 matrix, where does the money come from in order to pay the person who cycles?
Joel,
Whilst you feel that it is the actions of a minority (and let’s face it, it is a large minority) in bad promotion of MPB that is causing it to receive so much criticism, it is only fair to comment that the people who set up schemes like this are fully aware of these actions and condone them, until they start to cause problems for the business and in turn hurt their recruitment drive.
The money to pay earlier members in a 2 x 2 matrix invariably comes from the investments of the later members and not from product sales to non members. Please tell us where you think it comes from.
That is a very good question. In a 2×2 matrix, there are two people in the first row and four people on the second row. It is on the second row where the person who cycles earns their commissions. In the second row there is a total of $800 in business volume (4 people x $200).
So, when a person cycles that $800 in Business volume is divided up as so: $300 is payed as a commission check to the person who cycled; $200 is automatically taken out to place them into another 2×2 matrix; $200 is for the gift card or to buy groceries online; $100 is saved by the company for bonuses.
In order to qualify for commissions though, the person needs to personally refer two people to MPB Today. If they do not, but happen to cycle anyway, the money is banked until they personally refer two people.
I hope this helps answer questions about how members are paid once they cylce.
Recruiting = ‘business volume’? That’s hilarious.
Looks to me that, if you draw a diagram for this, the payments to the earlier members comes out of the money paid in by the later members. If you simply buy groceries, then you do not join the 2 x 2 matrix. If you wait until you have recruited two more people, and they wait until they have recruited their people, there is no money to be made if everyone choses to buy groceries, only if they wait to get more join-up fees.
This method of “business” is generally referred to as a ponzi. the grocery voucher has no value than its face value and for that you can buy it direct from Walmart or any other store that sells them. the only added value is if you recruit other people to do the same. The product itself has no intrinsic value.
Joel,
Thank you for your response. I truly do appreciate it. If you take a careful look at the process, and keep repeating it, what you find is the people who are new to the matrix require an ever-increasing number of people to join after them in order for them to get paid (or cycle through the matrix). In fact, the number of new members required increases exponentially, requiring a doubling of the number of people needed to join for each new layer to get paid. In other words, pure and simple, this is a classic pyramid payout structure. If you would like details on the math I would be happy to provide it. Unfortunately, you have been tricked by the scammers running this operation into joining an illegal pyramid scheme.
Will you please explain what is illegal about it? Also, in your opinion, will you please tell me which referral marketing companies are legal?
If you read the following “PREPARED STATEMENT OF DEBRA A. VALENTINE, GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE U.S. FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION” which can be found here: http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.shtm you should come away with a far greater appreciation of the “hows and whys” of pyramid schemes, Joel.
A shorter explanation from the Australian Govt. can be found here: http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/PyramidSchemesand the British Office of Fair Trading explanation/s can be seen here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38561.html
Unfortunately, experience tells me that by the time we get to this stage of a pyramid scheme, it is already too late to save the money which has already been sent to the fraud/fraudsters.
For all intents and purposes, the money is already “gone”
The very nature of these scams means that the fraudsters will be able to keep their current members “on the hook” so to speak by employing a “trickle feed” repayment system, as happened with AdSurf Daily and others.
Very few members ever take the time to work out how long, at their current rate of payment it will take before their initial “investment” is covered or, for that matter, how many new members must be found to allow the “find 2 and it’s free” strategy to work.
For example, an interest rate of 1% per week can appear to be astronomical when compared to the rates being offered by banks.
HOWEVER, at 1% per week return, it will take 100 weeks before the initial investment amount is “covered”
100 weeks, as in almost 2 YEARS, before the “investor” starts making a profit.
Which gives the fraudster a free hand to pull up stakes and disappear with the loot about one minute after the new member sign-up rate begins to slow or stall.
Joel,
Pls see LRM’s post. As for legal referral-type MLM companies, Amway and Mary Kay are two. The have real products and generate the majority of their revenue from product sales (although some might say overpriced — fundamentally MLM is not a very cost-efficient way to market and so the extra costs are borne by the end user. Don’t believe it? Walmart is reknown for their cost cutting efficiency, and in fact they are arguably the most efficient enterprise in the world in bringing products to market. Somehow they have done this without being MLM. I myself am neutral on MLM, I just know it is not efficient.) They do not offer immense returns to their members, and they do not cycle large amounts of money as a percentage of total revenue from the most recent to join members to the members who joined earlier. They do have an upstream sales commision model which is legal, provided that the majority of the commissions going upstream come out of the purchase price of the product. Legal MLM is quite different that the scam MLM. Peel away the veneer of something like Regenesis and one can use a mathematical analysis to reveal an illegal pyramid. AFAIK, every single 2×2 is a pyramid scheme, but that would only include the couple dozen I have looked at or read about. Others here are far more experienced, but I don’t think they’ve ever seen a non-pyramid 2×2.
Joel,
As an addendum, let’s carry through the MPB matrix for a while to see what happens. When the first person cycles through, there are a total of 7 people who are members. 1 person at the top, two on the second layer, and 4 on the thrid layer. For simplicity let’s assume no one cycles more than once (this assumption is the “best case” for MPB in terms of the numbers — allowing people to cycle makes the numbers worse). When the second group of two people reach the top of their respective matrices, there are now 15 people in MPB — the first cycler, these two new cyclers, the four who were on row 3 previously and are now on row 2, and eight new members — four each on the bottom of the two matrices. On the next cycle, the four people who were at the bottom of the first matrix get to the top of their own matrix. Each of those matrices has 7 people, plus the three people who have previously cycled. The equation that tells you how many people who are in MPB is:
Members = [2 ^ (Complete Cycles + 2)]-1
So we get the following table:
Complete Cycles Members
1 7
2 15
3 31
4 63
5 127
6 255
and so on. At each step, the number of members double. Eventually the numbers get too big for this business to be sustainable.
10 4095
15 131,071
20 4,194,303
25 134,217,727 (Population of Japan = 127,000,000)
Think MPB Can sign up everyone in Japan?
30 4,294,967,295
OK, let’s assume somehow we reach cycle 30 and 2/3 of the worlds population have signed up, and look at the winners and losers. (We cannot go to cycle 31, because that would mean we need to sign up some 1.5 biliion more people than are presently on the planet….) At cycle 30, a total of 536,870,912 people reach the top of their own matrix. A total of 1,087,741,823 have cycled through their own matrix for all cycles 1-30. At cycle 30, there are also two people in the second row and four on the third row. So, that means there are 1,073,741,824 “second row” people who have not been paid (and never will be because there are no people left in the world to join) and 2,147,483,648 “third row” people who will never get paid. That’s the pyramid math — eventually you need everyone in the world to join, and even then, the pyramid collapses. When it does, and it must, the vast majority of the people who join a pyramid scheme are destined to lose money. That’s why they are illegal. They can never, ever be a “fair” “investment” — they will always separate money from victims.
Thank you, Entertained. Thank you, LRM.
Many readers will find high value in these comments — and I’m appreciative.
Regards,
Patrick
I made my $200 back after my first week… The payment for MPB is a one time $200. I’ve talked to over 30 people who have had multiple cycles in their first few weeks.
It’s not like ASD where someone has to click a button every ten seconds and then they make a certain % off of their “investment”.
MPB has paid me each time for referring people and completing my team of six, many of whom have actually bought groceries from their website (product).
I’m wondering, have any of you watched a compensation plan video?
Thanks you for the links, I will check them out later today when I have some more free time.
Sigh,
sometimes being a “naysayer” can be so tiresome,
especially when defenders of obviously fraudulent pyramid schemes inadvertently demonstrate the illegality of the scheme in which they’re participating.
If “many” and not “all” have actually bought groceries, it can only mean “many” haven’t purchased groceries and are making money based solely on recruiting.
Joel,
it doesn’t matter to the authorities if there is the potential to sell product if people can make money based solely on recruitment of new members, ESPECIALLY if there’s some sort of “nudge, nudge, wink, wink” system in place where people are advised to ignore the sale of product and concentrate instead on the recruiting aspect of the business.
The legality or otherwise of the MLM aspect of the sales/recruitment angle STILL doesn’t alter the fact that a 2 X 2 matrix is mathematically bound to fail the bulk of members.
At this stage of the MPBToday saga, there are really only 3 possible outcomes for anyone with money “invested”
The law will getcha, the math will getcha or the fraudsters will getcha.
That’s the “it’s paying so it must be real” excuse. You and the other 30 people are of the 14% who “win”. Try thinking beyond yourself for a minute & look at how may more people need to join before they also “win”.
The “product” is irrelevant, it’s still a pyramid scheme. I posted a video of the compensation plan produced by one of the pyramid promoters, even they said the voucher was worthless because of the shipping charges.
Yes, the one mentioned above drew nice diagrams to demonstrate. Nice pyramid shaped diagrams. Other videos have shown cheques being waved (“it’s paying so it must be real”), others have explained the compensation plan by insulting US politicians or by using religion to get punters to sign up.
LRM & Entertained – using logic, reason & maths to prove this is a pyramid scheme means nothing to the pyramid promoters. All they see is the promise of $$$$ and nothing will change their mind. Until it collapses. Then they are told they didn’t try hard enough etc. It’s the same old excuses, same old pattern, and often the same old people involved.
Joel,
Respectfully, that is immaterial. It is not evidence that no pyramid/Ponzi exists. Beyond that, it is the type of comment that helps scams flourish.
This is another classic hallmark of a scam. 2×2 matrices are infamous for this. Perhaps you could benefit by performing some research on Regenesis2x2. Like MPB Today, it was promoted on the Ponzi boards.
Immaterial. Also sets the stage for a scam to mushroom.
Largely immaterial. Material in the sense that some ASD hucksters also are selling MPB Today and that ASD victims are targets of the sales pitch — i.e., you were a loser in ASD, but MPB Today creates winners. Within hours of the Feds’ seizure of tens of millions of dollars in the ASD case, the vultures were on forums telling the folks the remedies for their ASD miseries were cash-gifting programs and other autosurfs.
Helps set the stage for people to get fleeced. Beyond that, how “many” is “many?” Given that some MPB members are actually discouraging people from buying groceries from Southeastern — which I believe to be the principal wink-nod of this “program” — the “play” is to get people into the matrix.
Along those lines, I believe the “grocery voucher” play is the rankest of deceptions. MPB Today seems exceptionally willing to hand $200 at a time over to Walmart — all while purporting to be in the grocery business. I think that’s a huge RED FLAG.
Yes, including one recommended by ASAMonitor pitchman “Ken Russo.”
If they named a city after certain MPB Today video pitchmen, “Wink-Nod” would be an excellent name choice.
Patrick