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  • BULLETIN: Feds, CFTC File Stunning Allegations Of Multimillion-Dollar Fraud Against Purported Forex Trader Who Filed Bizarre Documents In NFA Disciplinary Case; Lyndon Lydell Parrilla Arrested In California

    A California man who allegedly once defended himself in a disciplinary case by advising the National Futures Association that he was “a living breathing free Man upon the free soil” and an “American citizen of the American Republic” has been arrested by federal agents on charges of defrauding investors of $5 million in a Forex scheme.

    Lyndon Lydell Parrilla, 31, of Los Angeles, was arrested yesterday. He also was sued by the CFTC, and the allegations surrounding his business practices are stunning.

    NFA booted Parrilla in 2009 after bringing a disciplinary action against him and receiving nonresponsive answers to its complaint, according to records. Parrilla once was associated with a firm known as Parman Financial.

    In response to the NFA  inquiry, Parrilla allegedly submitted documents styled “Public Notice, Declarations, and Lawful Protest and Private Pure Trust Act of State,” NFA said.

    These, according to NFA records, were among his alleged assertions:

    • “Lyndon Lydell Parrilla is a living breathing free Man upon the free soil, an American citizen of the American Republic, beneficiary of the Original jurisdiction.”
    • “Lyndon Lydell Parrilla is not a United States Citizen, subject, vessel or ‘person’ as defined in Title 26 of the United States Code.”
    • “As beneficiary to the Original Jurisdiction, He is not subject to nor does HE volunteer to submit to or contract with any ens legis artificial or corporate jurisdiction to which a United States person may be subject.”

    Federal prosecutors in Boston now say Parrilla was running a $5 million Forex scam in which he withdrew $2.1 million in cash from customers accounts, spent $950,000 at casinos and bought a car for $130,000. He was specifically charged with wire fraud. Elements of the case were assembled by the Interagency Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force created by President Obama in November 2009.

    The scam allegedly operated through a company known as Green Tree Capital, which used a website and addresses in California, Las Vegas, Boston and Canada, including the cities of Montreal London and Piedmont, according to court records.

    For its part, the CFTC said Green Tree created bogus records of its trading prowess, including “a false 33-page track record from an account that claims Green Tree achieved gains of 1000% from January 19, 2009, through February 26, 2010.”

    The company also used at least one dummy address in California, the CFTC charged.

    “Green Tree misrepresents its location on its website,” the CFTC charged.  “The website claims that Green Tree’s main office in the United States is located at 9701 Wilshire Boulevard, 10th Floor, Beverly Hills, California, and lists a phone number for that office.

    “However,” the CFTC continued, “the purported office address is fictitious, and Green Tree uses an answering service named Ruby Receptionists located in Portland, Oregon, to answer the phone number for its purported office in Beverly Hills.”

    There even is doubt that Green Tree had an office in Boston, according to the CFTC.

    A company known as FX High Summit (FXHS) is listed in the CFTC complaint as a “related entity,” but is not named a defendant.

    FXHS “holds itself out as a forex trading firm and purportedly is located in Quebec, Canada and/or Ireland,” the CFTC said.

    Discussions in online forums include complaints that FXHS also disappeared with money.

    Law enforcement and regulators have been squaring off against bizarre pleadings in securities and commodities cases. Some individuals charged in cases have made bizarre claims they are “sovereign” beings answerable only to God.

    There also have been bizarre claims that U.S. criminal and regulatory laws do not apply to accused criminals and fraudsters, even if the crimes or offenses occurred in the United States.

  • Florida Captures ‘Most Wanted’ Insurance Fraudster; Erline Telfort Accused Of Operating Ponizi Scheme To Steal From Finance Company

    Florida officials have announced the capture of Erline Telfort, one of the states “Most Wanted” insurance criminals.

    Telfort, of Broward County, was accused of operating a $500,000 Ponzi scheme and defrauding a finance company. Her arrest was announced by Jeff Atwater, the chief financial officer of Florida.

    “This arrest is a direct reflection of the hard work and dedication of our fraud investigators,” said Atwater.  “For too long scam artists like these have been allowed to steal hard earned money from honest Floridians.”

    Florida has been plagued by Ponzi schemes and other forms of financial fraud. Atwater implemented a website that flashes pictures of wanted hucksters. The idea behind the site, according to Atwater, is to engage “Floridians in the search for scammers who have eluded law enforcement.”

    Telfort, 29, was charged with organized fraud and criminal conspiracy. After her capture, the state published her photo, superimposing the word “CAPTURED” in red type to drive home the point that investigators and members of the public have a new tool to keep information on alleged criminals flowing.

    The names and photos of “Most Wanted” subjects who remain at large repeatedly load on the site. The state is offering tipsters rewards of up to $25,000 “for information that directly leads to an arrest and conviction in an insurance fraud scheme.”

    “I can assure you my office is up to the challenge of uncovering these schemes and continuing to bring the perpetrators to justice,” Atwater said.

    In his role as Florida’s CFO, Atwater oversees the state’s Department of Financial Services, including the Division of Insurance Fraud.

    Visit the “Most Wanted” site.

  • JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: ‘Massive Proceeds’ From Online Crime And Unknown Destinations Of Money Pose Security Risk That ‘Cannot Be Ignored’

    In testimony today, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein told members of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism that cybercriminals are posing “ongoing threats” to the U.S. information and financial infrastructure.

    The threats are posed by “nation-states, criminals, and terrorists who exploit our pervasive dependency on information technology to misappropriate or destroy information, steal money, and threaten basic services, including those provided by critical infrastructures,” Weinstein told the panel.

    “We face the challenges of organized crime, botnets, identity theft, and carding, to name just a few,” Weinstein said.

    “The massive proceeds from these online crimes create another troubling issue,” he said. “It is too soon to say where that money ends up, but the risk that it could be used to influence foreign governments, distort foreign justice systems, and fund terrorists cannot be ignored.”

    Read Weinstein’s opening statement to the Senate panel.

  • ‘Bo’ Beckman’s 11-Room Florida Ponzi Palace Has Screened-In, Heated Pool, Spa, ‘Summer Kitchen,’ Game Room, View Of Golf Course And Two Garages, Appraiser’s Report Says

    Jason 'Bo' Alan Beckman's Florida Ponzi property has a screened-in, heated pool and spa, according to court filings.

    As alleged Ponzi palaces go, Jason ‘Bo’ Alan Beckman’s Florida property is hardly the gaudiest. Even so, the 11-room home in Palm City has features and amenities many Americans only dream about.

    But one group of Americans — victims of the Trevor Cook Ponzi scheme — are likely only to have only bad dreams about the property. They are out millions of dollars as a result of a massive fraud in which Beckman allegedly played a big role.

    The two-story, five-bedroom, five-bathroom home built in 2005 is situated near a golf course and equestrian facility, according to newly filed documents in the Beckman civil-fraud case. Receiver R.J. Zayed is seeking an order that would turn the property back over to Beckman and his wife because the home — despite its amenities — likely cannot be sold for what is owed on the $707,301 mortgage.

    Keeping the property could create a drain on the receivership estate, Zayed argued.

    Chief U.S. District Judge Michael J. Davis asked last week that an appraisal be done on the property. The appraisal now has been filed with the court, and the appraiser reported that the home is worth $540,000, about $167,301 less than what is owed.

    Other court filings suggest the property may be worth even less. The SEC described Beckman in March as a “leading” figure in the Cook scheme, alleging that he raised about $47.3 million of the $194 million gathered in the overall fraud.

    Floor plan of the Beckman Florida home.

    Cook is serving a 25-year sentence in federal prison.

    Beckman used $1.49 million of investors’ money for payments “toward the purchase” of luxury homes in Minneapolis, Texas and Florida, the SEC charged. The Minneapolis home already is in foreclosure, and the Florida home is situated in an upscale neighborhood trying to make a comeback after the state’s foreclosure glut caused property prices to plunge, according to court filings.

    The Beckman Florida game room.

    Any buyer who emerges to purchase Beckman’s Florida property will find that it has twin garages with enough floor space to hold four cars, according to court filings.

    The home also features a yard with palm trees, a driveway built with colored pavers, a screened-in pool and spa, a screened-in “summer kitchen” and porch, central air, a well-appointed interior kitchen, a dining room, a living room, a family room, a game room, a den, a showy staircase, marble floors, a laundry room and other amenities.

    Some of the Ponzi victims have been described in court filings as penniless.

  • BULLETIN: Steven Byers, Figure In $255 Million WexTrust Ponzi And Fraud Scheme, Sentenced To More Than 13 Years In Federal Prison

    BULLETIN: UPDATED 8:48 A.M. EDT (U.S.A.) Steven Byers, the president and chief executive officer of WexTrust Capital LLC, has been sentenced to 160 months in federal prison for his role in an alleged $255 million Ponzi and fraud scheme that cost investors millions of dollars.

    Byers, 48, of Oakbrook, Ill., was sentenced by Judge Denny Chin of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Chin, formerly a U.S. district judge, was nominated to the appeals court by President Obama and received unanimous approval (98-0) in the U.S. Senate in the months after he sentenced Bernard Madoff in June 2009 to 150 years in federal prison for his $65 billion Ponzi scheme.

    Chin also ordered Byers to make $7.7 million in restitution to victims and ordered the forfeiture of $9.2 million. Byers also will be on supervised probation for three years after he serves his prison sentence. The scheme largely was targeted at Orthodox Jews, according to court filings.

    U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara described the sentence imposed by Chin against Byers as properly severe.

    “Steven Byers used smoke and mirrors to defraud his investors out of millions of dollars,” Bharara said. “But his scheme was ultimately exposed for the sham that it was, and now he will be punished severely for his crimes.”

    Prosecutors specifically charged Byers with fleecing investors in a $9.2 million, private-placement offering that claimed the money would be used to “purchase and operate seven commercial properties that were leased to the United States General Services Administration (GSA).”

    “The seven GSA properties, however, were never purchased,” prosecutors said. “Instead, funds raised from investors were diverted for other purposes.”

    Chin is scheduled to sentence Joseph Shereshevsky, Byers’ co-defendant, on May 13. The SEC said in August 2008 that Shereshevsky was a convicted felon who had been arrested for bank fraud in the 1990s.

    It is common in the Ponzi universe for securities swindlers to start new schemes. Some fraudsters have hatched new schemes while on probation for previous swindles. Others have hatched new schemes from their jail cells.

    See earlier story that references Byers.

  • BULLETIN: Peter Jerald Frommer, California Ponzi Schemer, Sentenced To 108 Months In Prison; Victims Tell Tales Of Devastation

    BULLETIN: Peter Jerald Frommer has been sentenced to nine years in federal prison for a Ponzi scheme that fleeced investors of more than $8 million. The scheme itself gathered $13 million, and Frommer, 35, advertised “guaranteed” returns of up to 15 percent in a period of only six weeks.

    The scheme was known as “Cap Exchange” and “Cap X.” Frommer, 35, acquired a $20 million  mansion in Malibu with fraud proceeds, prosecutors said.

    Victims described Frommer as a con man who caused horrible pain and ruined dreams.

    “The only event in my lifetime that was worse was the death of my child,” one victim was quoted as saying in a brief by prosecutors.

    “My son values his education and was very intent on attending a prestigious California university,” another victim wrote. “Unfortunately, he has not been able to attend that college because of the change in financial circumstances caused by Peter Frommer’s actions. What value do you put on the quashing of a teen’s dreams?”

    One of Frommer’s victims said the con man took advantage of vulnerable people and that the scheme ultimately spread to affect entire families.

    “I am sorry to admit my family was victimized by Peter Frommer,” the victim said. “A close relative of ours introduced us when my family and I were in California seeking cancer treatment for our youngest son. In a moment of weakness, when we were struggling with the cost of his cancer treatment, we were duped and convinced ourselves, our adult children, and a sister that this was a smart and safe investment. We made a terrible mistake.”

    U.S. District Judge George H. Wu also ordered Frommer to pay $8.1 million in restitution.

    See earlier story on Frommer.

  • A PONZI QUANDARY: Convicted And Jailed, 61-Year-Old Schemer May Have Enough Life Insurance To Make Victims Whole. Case May Pose Unique Challenges To Court-Appointed Receiver And Victims Of William Huber’s Massive Fraud

    EDITOR’S NOTE: The Ponzi world is infamous for serving up long-term, dark skies and odd stories. Here is a new weather report and entry for the Ponzi Strange-O-Meter.

    By some accounts, the best definition of financial success is written by CPAs on the Last Great Day of a client’s life. When the final beans are counted, if the bean-counters determine  that the newly deceased had more cash and cash-convertibles than the sum of his debts and insurance holdings, it means that the departed was worth more money alive than dead.

    This will not be the case for convicted swindler William Huber — not that catastrophic insolvency that engulfs both perpetrators and many of their individual victims is news in Ponzi Land.

    What is news is that Huber, who fleeced 300 investors out of $15 million in a multistate scheme known as Hubadex, potentially has enough life insurance to make victims largely whole and perhaps even pay the costs of unraveling the litigation mess he created in 2009.

    But the money is not available now and Huber is still a relatively young man. Although the victims’ group as a whole possibly could gain the highest number of restitution dollars by waiting years for him to die and then recovering their losses by splitting pro rata shares of an insurance cashout, waiting may not be the best option from the standpoint of both fairness to individual victims and judicial economy.

    What to do in the here and now — and how best to wrap up Huber’s bizarre Ponzi affair — are questions to which the court-appointed receiver in the case has been seeking answers since the fall of 2009. So far, receiver Kevin Duff has rounded up more than $6.5 million by selling Ponzi properties in California and Florida, filing clawback actions and marshaling other assets while working on a victims’ distribution plan.

    Huber, 61, of La Jolla, Calif., pleaded guilty in Illinois last year and was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison. The SEC also filed an action against Huber, and the case is being unraveled by Duff, who has made clawback demands against 39 individuals and sued six winners.

    Duff, according to court filings, advised a federal judge that Huber had life-insurance policies that potentially would pay $19.25 million upon the fraudster’s death, depending on variables. The receivership estate has been paying the premiums on the polices while it seeks guidance and comes up with a final plan on how best to proceed. With the cooperation of Huber’s family, Duff has arranged to make the receivership estate and Huber’s former company the beneficiaries of the policies.

    The problem, however, is that paying the costly premiums indefinitely may create a drain on the receivership estate while providing no near-term benefit and keeping the case on the taxpayer-funded court docket for years. And what would happen if future litigation created an even greater strain on the estate?

    Indeed, according to court filings, the still-intact insurance policies come with premiums that currently cost the estate nearly $92,000 a year. Huber had four polices: one for $12 million, one for $5 million, one for $1.25 million and one for $1 million. Some or all of them may have to go.

    There also is no guarantee that the premiums will not increase. Hikes could create an even-greater strain on the receivership estate. And arranging a life-settlement offer beneficial to the estate has proven difficult, according to court filings.

    As things stand — assuming the premiums remain the same, the receivership remains intact, no beneficial life-settlement offer is made, no challenges are filed by the insurance carriers and Huber lives for another 20 years — the cost of paying for the insurance could exceed $1.84 million. An initial distribution to the victims could be lower because the $6.5 million estate potentially would have to set aside a large sum just to pay the premiums — and the estate would have to remain intact under court supervision indefinitely

    In a report to a federal judge in February 2010, Duff noted the presence of the policies and their costs. In May 2010, Duff noted that no life-settlement offers had been forthcoming. An October 2010 report noted largely the same thing. So did a report Duff filed with the court in February 2011.

    When the scheme was collapsing, according to the SEC, Huber advised his investors that he was no Bernard Madoff. But an accounting showed that he was a mini-Madoff who claimed to have $40 million under management when he had only $3 million, according to court records.

    Huber later blamed the SEC for his inability to honor redemption requests, but the real reason investors were denied access to their money was that Huber had systematically defrauded them while showing them fictitious paper profits, according to court filings.

    At least $1.7 million went to pay for Huber’s personal expenses, including the acquisition and maintenance of Ponzi properties. In fact, the SEC said, he’d spent more than $800,000 on his California Ponzi palace, nearly $100,000 to keep his Florida condo in Naples in fine fettle and $331,000 on life-insurance premiums.

    “Huber recently sent letters and e-mail messages to certain investors telling them that they cannot add or withdraw funds from their accounts (even though the private placement memoranda allow them to do so at the end of each quarter), because Hubadex is undergoing an ‘audit and review by the SEC,’” the SEC said in September 2009. “In reality, Huber and Hubadex cannot meet all of the possible redemption requests from investors because the actual Fund balances are less than 10% of what Huber and Hubadex have represented to investors in their detailed monthly account statements.”

    Huber bought the Ponzi properties in the name of Hubadex, the SEC said, noting that he had been sanctioned and fined $50,000 by the state of Illinois in 2005 for his business practices.

    “On December 17, 2008, one week after Bernard Madoff was arrested for perpetrating a massive Ponzi scheme, Huber sent an e-mail message to investors reassuring them that the Funds had nothing in common with Madoffs scheme,” the SEC said in September 2009. “In the message, Huber misled investors about the Symmetry Fund’s non-existent hedge fund investments, claiming ‘[w]e just received the last of the assurances from Symmetry’s sub-funds which confirms the Symmetry Fund, L.P. has no exposure whatsoever to Bernard Madoffs firm or investment funds.’”

    “Huber also lied to investors about the amounts of liquid assets in the Quarter Funds and Trimester Fund, telling them that the total assets in each Fund were ‘equal to the value of the Funds’ limited partnership interests less any incentive management fee,’ when in reality the Funds held far less money than Huber and Hubadex claimed. Huber further lied about the success of the Funds and his own honesty, claiming that the enormity of Madoffs crime also damages the credibility of ‘honest operators of successful alternative investment funds, such as ours, in the process and without foundation … We wonder if our funds were down 30 to 50% this year, would we be subject to the same Madoff cloud of misgiving?’”

    Huber no longer has to wonder about the Madoff cloud. Indeed, he created his own cloud — and the receivership estate now is trying to find the best way to make the dark Ponzi skies that enveloped his victims at least partly sunny.

  • STATEMENT: PP Blog Reports Unusual Incident To Federal Law-Enforcement Agency

    On April 6, an unusual communication was directed at the PP Blog. The Blog reported the incident to a federal law-enforcement agency and provided information about the communication to the agency. The Blog is declining to describe the incident, except to say it was menacing in nature.

     

  • TEXAS-SIZED MYSTERY: Day-Care Operator Accused Of Routing ‘At Least’ $60 Million Through Unlicensed Money-Transmitting Business

    Christina Bates

    A Greater Dallas woman who ran a day-care center has been accused by federal prosecutors in Texas of operating an unlicensed money-transmitting business through which “at least” $60 million flowed between October 2004 and January 2008.

    The case against Christina Sang Bates is the second major case involving money-transmitting businesses to make the news in recent weeks. On March 1, Victor Kaganov, 69, of Tigard, Ore., pleaded guilty to charges that he funneled $172 million through his unlicensed business after setting up shell companies for Russian clients.

    In the Kaganov case, prosecutors said money was funneled to at least 50 countries. The FBI has repeatedly warned Congress about a “shadow” banking system and shell companies set up to disguise crimes.

    Bates also is known as Sang Tran Bates, Sang Tran Johnson and Sang Johnson Bates. Prosecutors said she used her names and the names of companies such as Transasia Travel Inc., Tat-Que Huong Inc. and Jr. Academy of McKinney Inc. as part of the fraud.

    Jr. Academy is the day-care center. Bates violated both U.S. law and Texas law, prosecutors said. The case initially was filed under seal on March 10, but the seal was lifted March 29. Bates initially was jailed, but has been released on conditional bond.

    Prosecutors are seeking the forfeiture of $60 million and the building that housed the day-care center. The now-shuttered center was located on a street known as Bountiful Grove.

  • BULLETIN: Feds Say Man Filed False Liens For Tens Of Billions Of Dollars Against Federal Prosecutors, Investigators; Mark D. Leitner Indicted In Florida

    BULLETIN: It has happened again, this time in the Sunshine State.

    Mark D. Leitner has been indicted in Florida on charges of filing false liens against federal prosecutors, investigators and court personnel involved in his criminal trial last year on tax charges.

    Leitner, whose age and address were not provided in a Justice Department statement, was accused of filing liens for $48.489 billion against a number of federal employees. He was specifically accused of filing false liens, corruptly endeavoring to impede and impair the Internal Revenue Service and publicly disclosing Social Security numbers in the commission of illegal activity.

    In at least five instances, Leitner disclosed the Social Security numbers of federal officials, prosecutors said. Records at the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, meanwhile, show that Leitner unsuccessfully tried to sue the United States last year.

    Records at the Federal Bureau of Prisons show that Mark Daniel Leitner is an inmate at the Lewisburg federal penitentiary in Pennsylvania. His age is listed as 39.

    Mark Daniel Leitner was convicted in Pensacola last year in a tax case, according to federal records.

    The new case against Leitner is reminiscent of events surrounding the AdSurfDaily autosurf, which federal prosecutors described as a $110 million Ponzi scheme.

    ASD figures Kenneth Wayne Leaming and Christian Oesch unsuccessfully sought to sue the United States last year, apparently for the staggering sum of $29 TRILLION, after key court rulings went against the Florida-based company operated by Andy Bowdoin.

    Leaming and Oesch also used the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. As was the case with Leitner, their lawsuit bid was rejected.

    ASD is known to have members who define themselves as “sovereign” beings who are not answerable to U.S. law.

    In the Leitner case, prosecutors said that he  “filed and mailed numerous harassing and frivolous documents to the court and personnel.”

    Some ASD members claimed a federal judge owed tens of millions of dollars for her role in the ASD case. The U.S. Secret Service and federal prosecutors also were targeted with mail that demanded them to take certain actions.

    See earlier story that references Leitner and the Pensacola tax case.

    See earlier story on Kenneth Wayne Leaming. See another one. Leaming, who claims to practice maritime law but appears never to have attended law school,  has been sanctioned in Washington state for filing bogus liens, according to records.

    See December 2010 story about a false-liens case against Andrew Isaac Chance in Maryland.

    See an August 2010 story about a false-liens case against Thanh Viet Jeremy Cao in California.

    See a June 2010 story about a false-liens case against Ronald James Davenport in Washington state.

  • BULLETIN: U.K.’s Serious Fraud Office Charges John Neil Hirst In $16 Million Ponzi Fraud; Brits, French, Americans Allegedly Targeted By Gilher Inc. Of Panama And Seychelles

    BULLETIN: John Neil Hirst has been charged by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in the United Kingdom in a case that alleges he was at the helm of an international Ponzi scheme that targeted British, French and Americans through a company registered in Panama and Seychelles.

    The company was known as Gilher Inc., the SFO said. Hirst operated from Mallorca, investigators said.

    U.K. officials said Hirst, 59, appeared in Bradford Magistrates Court today to face charges of money-laundering and conspiracy to defraud. The scheme is believe to have gathered more than £10m (about $16.2 million U.S.), causing losses of about £6m (nearly $10 million U.S.).

    Investigators said in November 2009 that Gilher hawked a “fund” that offered “a guaranteed return of 20% a year.”

    It was the second major Ponzi case brought in Europe in recent weeks. German Cardona Soler was arrested in Spain last month in a case described as a $300 million Ponzi scheme that affected more than 100,000 investors globally.

    The SFO investigation of Hirst “is still continuing in regards to the involvement of a number of additional individuals,” the SFO said today. Investigators did not name the other individuals or say how many others were under scrutiny.

    “Gilher Inc was a Panama and Seychelles registered company, operated by Hirst, which invested funds on behalf of private clients who were mainly based in the UK and Spain,” SFO said. “The investigation started in November 2009 following complaints made to the SFO by investors and has been investigated with the assistance of West Yorkshire and Surrey Police and overseas law enforcement authorities.”

    SFO did not identify the overseas authorities that assisted in the probe.

    Cardona is a figure in the alleged EMG/Finanzas Forex Ponzi scheme, which has been tied to multiple fraud schemes in Florida and a narcotics probe in Arizona, according to U.S. court filings. Some of the U.S.-based legwork in the alleged caper was performed by members of the same Task Force that brought a $110 million Ponzi prosecution against AdSurfDaily President Andy Bowdoin of Quincy, Fla.

    Cardona’s name also has surfaced in the George Theodule Ponzi scheme in Florida.

    Both EMG/Finanzas and AdSurfDaily were promoted on Ponzi and criminals’ forums such as TalkGold and MoneyMakerGroup.

    Hirst was ordered to remain at his residence and not to contact prosecution witnesses. He also was ordered to surrender his passport, SFO said.