PROSECUTION BOMBSHELL: Bowdoin Signed Proffer Letter Prior To Submitting To Forfeiture And Told Investigators That Government’s Material Allegations Were ‘All True’
Andy Bowdoin
Prior to submitting to the forfeiture of tens of millions of dollars in January, AdSurfDaily President Andy Bowdoin signed a proffer letter and told investigators that the government’s material allegations all were true, federal prosecutors said late this afternoon.
The explosive revelation came in the form of a memorandum filed in response to a pro se motion by Bowdoin to rescind his decision to submit to the forfeiture.
“In fact, when Mr. Bowdoin, through his counsel, filed his January 2009 “Motion to Withdraw Claims,†seeking to dismiss the August 2008 claims that provided his statutory standing, he had already admitted to law enforcement agents that the material allegations that the government made in its forfeiture complaint in this case were all true,” prosecutors said.
“Mr. Bowdoin signed a ‘proffer letter’ that informed him that his proffered statements would not be used against him in the government’s case-in-chief in any criminal prosecution of him — other than a prosecution for perjury, giving a false statement, or obstruction of justice,” prosecutors said.
“But the letter also explained that Mr. Bowdoin’s proffered statements could be used for other purposes,” they continued. “Mr. Bowdoin and the government never agreed that Mr. Bowdoin’s proffered statements were off the table in this civil case — which explains why, after consulting with his attorneys, Mr. Bowdoin decided, in January, to withdraw his claims.”
Bowdoin asserted in his motion to rescind that “[t]he procedures used to search and seize [the] property in the forfeiture were nonexistentâ€; (2) the claimants “were greatly influenced by legal counsel that was ineffectiveâ€; (3) the claimants were illegally intimidated, threatened and coerced by government agents and attorneys concerning potential prosecutions and sanctions against themâ€; (4) the claimants acted under severe duress and true feeling of protestâ€; (5) “government agents used fraud, trickery and deceit to . . . convince the claimants that the withdrawal and release of claims was their only optionâ€; (6) “government agents and prosecutors acted in bad faith in deciding to use a civil investigation and forfeiture to gain information and evidence for a criminal indictment and conviction†and (7) “government agents and prosecutors have willfully and intentionally used an illegal forfeiture to destroy the business enterprise that has affected thousands of innocent purchasers with de minimus or non-existent harm to the public to punish the claimants,†prosecutors said.
Judge Rosemary Collyer should deny the rescission motion, prosecutors said.
“Mr. Bowdoin offers no facts to support any of his accusations. Indeed, his accusations are inconsistent with the record. He offers no valid basis for this Court to permit relief from a final order, that he, through his counsel, requested, dismissing him from this proceeding.”
At the same time, prosecutors said, Bowdoin appears to have arrived at his conclusions after consulting with nonexperts.
“Mr. Bowdoin says that after discussing this case with his supporters, and concluding that they were smarter than his attorneys, he has changed his mind. But, ‘buyer’s remorse’ is not a basis for establishing that a mistake occurred when the Court issued the order to dismiss the August 2008 claims,” prosecutors said. “Mr. Bowdoin offers no facts to support that any mistake ever occurred.
“Nor does ‘I changed my mind’ provide a basis under the catch-all provision in Rule
60(b)(6) to relieve a party from his free and conscious choice regarding the conduct of litigation,” prosecutors said.
The record of the case undermines Bowdoin’s assertions, prosecutors said.
“Mr. Bowdoin also alleges that he was ‘illegally intimidated, threatened and coerced by
government agents and attorneys concerning potential prosecutions and sanctions against them,'” prosecutors said.
“But that protest is belied by his other statements in the record here. When this case was
scheduled for a post-seizure hearing, at the request of the attorneys who Mr. Bowdoin retained in August 2008 to represent him in this civil forfeiture matter, those attorneys told this Court that Mr. Bowdoin would not be testifying at the hearing they had requested. Mr. Bowdoin’s attorneys explained that, if called to testify, Mr. Bowdoin would assert his right under the fifth amendment to the Constitution not to incriminate himself.”
“In other words,” prosecutors continued, “his own attorneys, presumably in consultation with Mr. Bowdoin, concluded that Mr. Bowdoin faced potential prosecution for his conduct and should not testify. Mr. Bowdoin, through his attorneys, did invoke the fifth amendment. Mr. Bowdoin’s apparent assertion now, that his agreement to withdraw from this case hinged on a threat from the government that he was facing criminal culpability, is plainly dishonest. The multiple attorneys Mr. Bowdoin has fired presumably explained precisely as much to him. Nor can Mr. Bowdoin credibly assert that his decision to
withdraw was tied to a prosecutor ever having misinformed his counsel.
“Ultimately, whether Mr. Bowdoin’s awareness that he might face prosecution for criminal conduct came directly from his conversations with his own attorneys, or from conversations he had with some others, is irrelevant,” prosecutors said.
Justice is being delayed for ASD’s many victims because of Bowdoin’s senseless pleadings, prosecutors said.
Bowdoin claims the government “used an illegal forfeiture to destroy the business enterprise that has affected thousands of innocent purchasers with de minimus or nonexistent harm to the public to punish the claimants,†prosecutors said.
“The government agrees that the enterprise ‘affected thousands of innocent’ people and it agrees that the enterprise caused ‘harm to the public,'” they continued. “Mr. Bowdoin complains about his lawyers and the government’s lawyers — but he does not maintain that the enterprise that affected thousands of innocent people was lawful. As he well knows, the evidence his attorneys produced demonstrated that fallacy of his supposed novel business.
“Mr. Bowdoin secured funds from the public by promising to them safe, profitable
returns,” prosecutors said. “To keep his fraud scheme afloat, Mr. Bowdoin paid apparent ‘profits’ to early entrants into the scheme, and to friends, family and employees. Mr. Bowdoin confirmed to law enforcement officials that he modeled his enterprise on another’s failed fraud scheme, and he acknowledged that there was almost no revenue independent from what he secured from the ‘members.’
“No witness ASD produced at the emergency hearing disagreed,” prosecutors said. “No ASD official or representative testified that the enterprise secured revenue independent of what it derived from members to support the payments that were promised to the public and paid out to some participants.
“Mr. Bowdoin also confirmed that the revenue figures of the enterprise were managed to make it appear to prospective members that the enterprise called Ad Surf Daily was a consistently profitable, and brilliant, passive income opportunity. Mr. Bowdoin knew that his conduct was indefensible when he withdrew his claims in January. Nothing material has changed, and nothing Mr. Bowdoin offers in his ‘Notice of Rescission, etc.’ begins to support the relief he seeks.”
Read the proecution’s memo.
Way to go prosecutors!
Roxy Lewis, N#9
Any know when Andy’s proffer document will be available under the FOIA? I might pay someone to post it over at the Tide’s Gone Out And Never Coming Back In forum……
Patrick,
This looks like the long-rumored “deal” between Andy and the prosecutors. The proferred letter is essentially a signed confession, and should be the last keg of nails needed to seal the coffin on ASD. What Andy doesn’t realize (or maybe he does) is that while the prosecutors stated that they would not used Andy’s confession against him in a criminal case, fact of the matter is they don’t need his confession to get a conviction on an array of charges. The other evidence is more than sufficient.
Ironically, Bowdoin’s actions up through the Jan. 29 motion really were of benefit to the members/his victims. Between the proferred letter and the Jan 29 motion Andy essentially said “Yes I am guilty, yes ASD is a Ponzi/fraud, always was. Please allow me to NOT continue my fight for the assets seized and please allow me to never pursue those assets in the future.” The result could have been a somewhat shortened process to reimburse the ASD victims. Somehow, something must have snapped in his brain in the past few months and he fell in with the Arby’s Indian crowd and other so-called “non-lawyer legal expert” crowd, and filed these “brilliant” pro se motions, thereby delaying restitution (at least from the Bowdoin assets.)
In reading AUSA Cowden’s response, it looks like he enjoyed writing this one.
A note to CORRECTION: What’s your position now on your hero?????
Can someone explain why this info. is just now coming to light? It seems that there were several times that the govenment could have used this to prevent Andy from filing all this BS and to let the members know that Andy had indeed made a deal. It seems to me that they would have “enjoyed” making this public knowledge and letting everyone know what a scam ASD really was by Bowdoin’s own written admission? Perhaps it could also have prevented the knock-offs! Maybe not, as there is probably a Government strategy here that I don’5t understand. Does this proffer statement mean Andy will not be charged in a criminal indictment?
Sorry, my pecking finger slipped and I apparently added a 5 to don’t.
Hi Entertained,
First, I just want to say that I’ve enjoyed reading your take on these issues. Your analysis has been keen. Parts of the prosecution’s response to Andy Bowdoin’s rescission motion followed the same logic you have shared in the past.
With respect to the proffer — my, what a can of worms that may open. It potentially widens the exposure of ASD insiders and top promoters.
Bowdoin must have had information prosecutors valued. Why else the proffer?
The timing of these events could be important.
1.) Evidentiary hearing loss in November.
2.) Second forfeiture complaint in December, zeroing in on alleged misconduct by Bowdoin family members, ASD attorney Robert Garner and unnamed others.
3.) Submission to forfeiture in January — then more than a month of absolute silence from Bowdoin before the pro se pleadings began.
What happened during that month?
And, remember that the bank accounts of others reportedly were seized not long after the AVG launch.
You’re right, of course, that the prosecution doesn’t need Bowdoin’s statements to bring off a successful criminal prosecution. The December forfeiture complaint, in particular, shows the prosecution has a tremendous amount of evidence. Recordings and/or transcripts appear to be among the evidence prosecutors have obtained.
Pieces of the puzzle remain — the nature of the proffer, the sudden switch to pro se, perhaps under pressure from some associates, the lack of service in the RICO case.
Thanks for your comments, Entertained.
Regards,
Patrick
And, anyone who doesn’t think the prosecutors have others “in the frame”, need only read:
“To keep his fraud scheme afloat, Mr. Bowdoin paid apparent “profits†to early entrants into the scheme, and to friends, family and employees”
There was no reason for the government to make this information known before this. You don’t lay down your cards until all the cards have been dealt, and all the bets have been made. When you have the parties making your case for you, don’t get in their way.
Stay tuned folks, more shoes are about to drop. I’ve got the popcorn, who’s bring drinks?
Having looked on the Tide’s Gone Out And Never Coming Back In forum…… (Thank you Marci, that was inspired. lol) there is a thread acknowledging this that has, as yet, not been taken down.
It is difficult to see how they are going to do that, as the document by the Prosecutors is a legitimate Court Document. But, you never know what will happen over there. Silence so far from the Mods, and it will be interesting to see how on earth they justify their opposition now, after the revelation about the Proffer Letter signed by A Bowdoin.
Has their hero betrayed them?
Not at all,
it just means whatever Bowdoin says/said in the proffer document can’t be used as evidence against him.
The AG has already indicated that the prosecution has more than enough evidence to proceed with criminal charges WITHOUT using the document.
Rest assured, having full access to all the ASD records, the prosecutors will have every “t” crossed and every “i” dotted by the time this eventually makes it to criminal court.
As many observers have noted previously, having prevented any further cash losses by members, it matters little how long a period transpires until criminal charges are preferred.
Refunds, however, cannot begin until the court signs off on the civil forfeiture complaints, which it cannot do until Bowdoin ceases his actions.
Patrick,
Some of the more knowledgable folks like Gregg or Lynn probably have a better view, but I’m guessing the proffer letter may well have arisen in part due to Andy’s inability to keep his mouth shut during discussions with prosecutors, and then his attorneys trying to put the cat back in the bag. The prosecutors already knew that they had Bowdoin dead to rights on an array of charges any time they wanted, so to them the proffer letter had little value in the prosecution of Bowdoin. However, it could have SUBSTANTIAL value in the prosecution of the array of “winners” and “insiders.” At this point, you now have a letter from the founder and primary driver of a signficant Ponzi scheme admitting that all along the program was a Ponzi scheme and was designed as such. While many knew this, it is easier to prove in court with the signed confession of the proffer letter from the main character in this matter. Now, all of the people who benefitted have no defense, other than ignorance (which won’t help them in clawbacks nor in criminal matters). If this proffer letter was a surprise to the Bowdoin supporters, esp. those who made $$$$$$$ in ASD, I am guessing this morning that they are seriously p***ed at Bowdoin, for with the proffer, he’s really put their necks on the line….. ‘course, they deserve nothing less…..
When I entered “proffer letter” into google, this interesting article popped up:
http://www.justiceflorida.com/tags/proffer-letter/
Hi Entertained,
Indeed it could have substantial value — and not just with respect to the prosecution of winners and insiders.
A proffer sometimes means prosecutors believe the one who proffers can deliver a big fish or multiple big fish. This is where the theory of “Steroidal Puppeteers” comes into play.
ASD had insiders, to be sure. But what if ASD wasn’t exclusively an autosurf? What if existed in part for the express purpose of laundering money?
Think about the utility an autosurf would provide a money-laundering pro, perhaps particularly an autosurf whose chief could be manipulated and already is receptive to criminal thinking.
It is clear that some ASD participants used the company itself to keep income off the books by selling ad packs directly to downline members and using ASD’s internal system to transfer them.
The sellers even could have sold ad packs at a discount just to raise cash. People gifted ad packs could use the “earning” power to make money for nothing — and also could sell ad packs to downline members or family members or friends for cash, even at a discount.
Seller A, for example, could sell ad packs to Family Member A for 50 cents on the dollar, pocket the cash — and Family Member A emerges with the “earning” power of 125 cents on the dollar while having paid only 50 cents for it.
The entire burden of such transactions would be passed off on ASD members who were paying 100 cents on the dollar to get their 125 cents.
Bowdoin says he gifted a charity 100,000 ad packs. The entire weight of that transaction could have been passed to the membership at large.
And what if, say, people were using ASD in ways to get interest-free loans that paid an extraordinary dividend, perhaps by stealing money from legitimate clients and letting it ride in ASD?
ASD was “outperforming” the stock market by orders of magnitude. Legitimate dealers easily could have seen it as a way to stem losses from their own trading or used it to hedge losses — while creating a cash turbine.
Tens of millions of dollars flowed into ASD practically overnight. Lots of people brought in family and friends, but some of them could have brought in clients’ money.
It’s easy to read Bowdoin’s pro se pleadings as a response to external pressure. People had a lot of money riding on decisions only he could make because they couldn’t hope to file successfully as claimants to the proceeds of a criminal enterprise.
Patrick
Patrick:
It has been obvious to many of us that from just after the first of the year in 08 that some very major players had come on board ASD for it to have taken off like it did. Up until then it was limping along. It has been our speculation that many of these players were major players in MLM programs, and brought their downlines into ASD. With this significant amount of people becoming members, it became attractive to the average person, and helped convince them they could not afford to miss the gravy train, and ASD was legitimate. Typical means by which a Ponzi grows, and of course the “money” being made from ASD was the carrot dangling in front of everyone’s faces. This started a feeding frenzy to join.
I agree that it is these people who put pressure on Andy to file the pro se filings, for they well know what happens otherwise. So Andy caught himself between a rock and a hard place. He knew he had to sign the Proffer Letter to protect himself, and didn’t think of the ramifications of throwing the other major players under the bus. If he did, he chose to protect himself, not them. When they realized he had agreed to the Forfeiture in Rem, they then put pressure on him to file pro se and challenge the seizure. They were only looking out for themselves, not the membership of ASD.
As Entertained said earlier, Andy with agreeing to drop the request for getting his funds back, he was looking out for the ASD Members. Then the pressure that must have been put on him by these other major players must have been immense for him to think he could file pro se and win.
When all the facts do come out, and I am confident they will, people are going to be surprised at the names, the amounts of money that were involved, and the charges filed. You are right, Patrick, those that were ginning the system by selling their ad packs, etc. to other members, as well as those who saw an opportunity to launder money, are really nervous right now as to what will happen next.
Just think, we haven’t even gotten to the last Scene in the last ACT, and already you need a scorecard to keep up with all the diverse players involved. And there are more to come. I’ll leave the legal issues for Gregg to discuss, and toss in my 2 cents now and then. Just don’t ask for change back.
Did anyone else see that clawbacks have been issued in the Madoff Ponzi? Imagine having turned your funds over to a manager and then just cashed the monthly checks for living expenses only to find out that the funds resided with Madoff. Not only would the nest egg be gone, but the Receiver wants the funds back.
One caveat is that the Receiver is not going after the “net losers”. See the CNN story and others for details.
One fact which will surprise many when all is said and done is the number of churches that will be considered “BIG winners”!! Andy at one time offered a 100 or 200% match for non-profits…many members got their churches involved in ASD! From what I understand these organizations took out large sums of money which they will be forced to return (if they can).
Nice summary Patrick – Andy caught between the devil (the members of ASD) and the deep blue sea (the big boys who took his scheme to another level). I suspect that Lynn is right and that we are in for some fairly “gob smacking” revelations, especially when it comes to the cast list.
Andy must have given the Feds a wealth of information about ASD insiders for them to agree not to use the info in a criminal trial Andy might face. The long-time scammers who fueled the fire no doubt told Andy why CEP had failed and how the feds could be tricked better this time. I’m certain that Cowden & Co. have all names of people who Andy thinks got him into the mess he’s in now.
Once the Feds had gotten all they could out of Andy, they treated him like the criminal he is. I’m sure he missed all the attention and adoration and simply couldn’t stand being a failed nobody once again. So he was reborn as an Arby’s Indian convert. Sheezz….self delusion raised to an art form. He doesn’t even know when he’s the user or being used any longer — and probably doesn’t care, so long as he’s not forgotten.
I know no one will like this but , I TOLD YOU SO.. Maybe NOW all you ASDMBA people will understand why we didnt waste anymore money and try to get standing in a case that effectively is already over. And you clowns that cried like a bunch of kids and got your refund, well too damn bad, you are out of the ASDMBA, by your own choice..
When Larry Friedman and I visited with William Cowden at the DOJ last November, we formulated a contingency plan to “GET THE MONEY”, because we both left that building believing the Feds had already cut a deal with Andy Bowdoin. After Cowden’s email to me on Feb 13th, there was no doubt in my mind a deal had been made..
NOW, ANYONE THAT HAS $25,000 or more invested in ASD or Panda, is financially secure, not afraid of a fight, has the stomach, no, has the NUTS to do what it takes to get your money, and is not afraid of publicity and a real fight, you call me at 214.587.2977 or 972.471.4408, call 24 hours aday, 7 days a week, If I don’t answer, leave your REAL name, address, phone number, ASD or Panda member number and the date you joined, I will get back to you within a hour or two, unless I am traveling, and I will TELL YOU how we will get your money, or at least a great deal of it..
Bob Guenther
This was posted on the ASDMBA website on FEBRUARY 20, 2009
QUESTION I HAVE FOR ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY MR. WILLIAM COWDEN AND THE DOJ
DID CLARENCE BUSBY AND ANDY BOWDOIN CUT A DEAL WITH THE U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IN EXCHANGE FOR WAIVING THEIR CLAIMS TO GOLDEN PANDA AND ASD FUNDS AND ASSETS? IS THE DOJ PURSUING CRIMINAL CHARGES?????
I HAVE BEEN ASKING THESE QUESTIONS SINCE SEPTEMBER 22, 2008, THE DAY BUSBY/GOLDEN PANDA WAIVED HIS CLAIMS TO THE PANDA CASH AND THREW IN THE TOWEL, AND SINCE JANUARY 13, 2009, THE DAY ANDY/ADSURFDAILY WAIVED HIS CLAIM TO THE ASD CASH AND ASSETS AND THREW IN THE TOWEL. NO ANSWER.
——————————————————————————–
THIS IS THE EMAIL CONTAINING MY QUESTIONS SENT TO
MR. WILLIAM R. COWDEN ON FEBRUARY 11, 2009
From: Bob Guenther [mailto:bob@jaffapartners.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:29 AM
To: Cowden, William (USADC)
Cc: Larry Friedman
Mr Cowden,
Obviously you are aware of the thousands of emails circulating the internet and being posted on hundreds of “Blogs” regarding AdSurfDaily/Andy Bowdoin and Golden Panda/Clarence Busby. Since our meeting last November Larry Friedman has been bombarded with calls, emails and complaints to his firm and I have been vilified, abused, harassed and had my reputation tarnished all because Larry Friedman and I tried to help the injured ASD Members and expose Andy Bowdoin for the thief that he was, and is. And to what end did we do this for?? Certainly not for the money!!!!
I think it only prudent, if not a simple professional courtesy, to answer the following question, given we have helped and assisted the DOJ is the relentless pursuit of Bowdoin and his many co-conspirators.
DID CLARENCE BUSBY AND ANDY BOWDEN CUT A DEAL WITH THE DOJ IN EXCHANGE FOR WAIVING THEIR CLAIMS TO GOLDEN PANDA AND ASD FUNDS AND ASSETS. IS THE DOJ PURSUING CRIMINAL CHARGES?????
Mr Friedman and I both are still willing to assist the DOJ in the timely return of forfeited funds to the injured ASD Members. No one knows ASD like I do, and certainly no lawyer or law firm knows ASD and the ASD membershiplike Larry Friedman. In this day and time that finds corruption at every corner, it seems the DOJ would welcome capable assistance in returning to the American people money that is rightfully theirs.
Of course, I am not convinced the DOJ or current administration intends on returning anything to the ASD membership. Could you clarify your intentions? Could you confirm the decision to do so has been made by the new Attorney General and has been confirmed by Judge Collyer?
These are questions I believe 100,000 plus American taxpayers, including Larry Friedman and I deserve the answer to.
Respectfully,
Robert L.Guenther
President/Managing Partner
Jaffa Partners LP
Jaffa Partners Management Co, LLC
Arizona Office 480.545.2200
Texas Office 972.471.4408
Fax 480.545.2022
Mobile 214-587-3977
bob@jaffapartners.com
——————————————————————————–
THIS IS WILLIAM R. COWDEN’S ANSWER TO THE ABOVE EMAIL
WHICH WAS SENT TO ME ON FEBRUARY 13, 2009
—– Original Message —–
From: Cowden, William (USADC)
To: Bob Guenther
Cc: Larry Friedman
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject:
As I have said before, we intend to use forfeited assets (upon liquidation) to compensate Ponzi victims.
William R. Cowden
Assistant United States Attorney
555 4th Street N.W.
Washington, DC 20530
(202) 307-0258
(202) 514-8707 (fax)
CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: This electronic communication involves an attorney and may
contain information that is confidential and/or attorney-client privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, interception, copying, disclosure or use of confidentialcommunications may be illegal. If you received this message in error, please notify me by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? DEAL or NO DEAL???
——————————————————————————–
If you want to know how a court appointed adminstrator might take care of the ASD Members’ money, then go to this website – http://www.wfperkinsforcep.com
Colon End Parenthesis “CEP” is a recent PONZI case the Government and a court appointed Administrator/Receiver is in the process of handling.
——————————————————————————–
QUESTION ONE:
How Long Does It Take The Government To Give Victims Their Money Back?
ANSWER ONE:
Could be forever, because the Court appointed the administrator for CEP on July 10, 2007.
——————————————————————————–
QUESTION TWO:
How Long Will It Take The Administrator To Get Money From The “Winners”?
ANSWER TWO:
Who knows? Because in the CEP case, the administrator has collected how much from the winners? Nothing.
——————————————————————————–
QUESTION THREE:
How Much Of A Fee Will An Administrator Who Knows Nothing About ASD Get?
ANSWER THREE:
In the CEP case, the adminstrator has been authorized how much to collect in fees? Answer – $1,001,574.98.
——————————————————————————–
Go through the website, do a little more research and see what the total “pot” of seized CEP funds was. Now you tell me just how long you think an uneducated court appointed administrator will take to distribute a $100Million+ in ASD seized funds.
I would post this on the ASD-BIZ Business Information Zone and the ASD Members Advocates-Surf’s Up, but I have been banned. Better to ban the truth than have to deal with it..
Steve Watts will post it though, http://www.thejoyluckclub.com, he always posts both sides, no matter his personal feelings..
One of the facts that I’m keenly interested in finding out is the total amount of ad packs outstanding at the shutdown in early August ’08.
Why?
Because even after all this time there are still a group at the Delusional website (and others, too) who believe that the big, bad, mean gubment has stolen their money and shut down a fantastic business model that was making them money.
In these times of widespread distrust of the government at all levels (“I love my country but I fear my government’) I think it’s incumbent upon USAG Cowden to not only prosecute the case but to educate those affected and those watching as to WHY and HOW it is a ponzi and that the thief is Andy Bowdoin and his henchmen, not the government who helped stop further losses.
It’s one simple, easily understood mathematical fact that can be gleened from the seized records.
There were $X number of adpacks outstanding and $x of withdrawals pending at the time of the seizure.
I would imagine that this number would be at least $200,000,000, probably much, much more.
There was $X in cash and assets seized.
Even the most mathematically challenged cheerleaders will realize that a business with $90,000,000 in Assets (or whatever that asset number is) and $200,000,000 in short term liabilities is a failed business.
The outcome of this case is not in question. Many of the big players are surely quaking in their boots as the scene winds through the civil case and moves to the criminal case where it gets really interesting.
But, let’s not forget the hearts and minds of the general ASD audience, mathematically challenged though they may be.
The real villain here is AndyB and the government saved many thousands more from losing many millions more.
I continue to
Respect the Black Box
Nope, you’re wrong, Bob. It IS on the ASD-biz.ning.com site, Bob.
Roxy
If there is anyone who is concerned that Cowden will fall for this line, please be sure to contact him and tell him do NOT appoint Bob or Larry or anyone connected to them. I know that’s been said before, but this is a great call to action.
Roxy
Bob,
PUH-lease, even by your standards, you’ve managed to set a new low in self serving drivel.
So you raised 125k, flew to DC and Cowden sent you packing. Cowden didn’t cut any deals, he seized the money from Andy’s account. Usually a deal involves concessions by both sides. With your superior inside knowledge, can you point out what Andy got in return?
Cowden holds all the cards. He can return a criminal indictment when he feels it’s most advantageous to his case. He’s got Andy’s proffer in his back pocket to boot.
As has been noted, a grand jury was seated but any indictments have not been unsealed at this point. Does your superior knowledge extend to this area as well?
One more question. Can you name one (1) time when an “interested party” defined as investor, employee or victim or their attorney has been appointed the Receiver in a Ponzi scheme? If there is to be a Receiver, he or she will be appointed by the judge.
All this has been pointed out ad nauseum on most anti-scam sites for months….and for free.
The only thing you will receive is a subpoena or indictment. I am hoping for the latter but don’t claim any inside knowledge.
Dirty_bird is absolutely right. I join him in the hope, though I, too, have no inside knowledge.
Roxy Lewis, Ning #9
You people never cease to amaze me. You are totally ignorant of how the Feds work..
Why hasen’t Andy been charged with any criminal action? When I was in Washington DC I called and tried to schedule an appointment with the criminal prosecutor who supposedly was assigned to the case. I was told they would not speak to me until the civil case was adjudicated.
Andy cut a deal, the Feds are sitting on the money, Judge Collyer is sitting on the case lonf=g enough to give everyone a shot at it, so there will be no appeal, then she will rule, the Feds will scoop all the cash, property and assets, and whatever deal Andy has cut will be what happens to him, and let us not forget Busby..
It’s about the MONEY on the civil side, the dont bring charges, and I dont see the criminal side anywhere around…. YET..
There is one way to get the money, aoe way, in my opinion, unless you want to wait 3-5 years..And that’s not a given either…
Bob:
I have a few questions for you since you are so upset that William Cowden or the Criminal Prosecutor hasn’t answered any of yours. Let’s see if you can do better than Mr. Coweden and the Criminal Prosecutor.
You posted that at the Miami rally you knew then ASD was a Ponzi. You said you tried to get your money and your friends money you gave them at this rally, but they could not locate your checks. So you went home empty handed.
So question Number 1: Did you put a stop pay on these checks?
Question Number 2: If not, why not since you knew ASD was a Ponzi at this point?
Then you formed ASDMBA Trust. Now the story has changed. The Trust was formed for the sole purpose of getting standing in the ASD Case for the members of the Trust. The rationale for this was because you and Larry Friedman had reviewed all the documents, ASD’s business model and concluded ASD was a viable business, and the seizure was in error. Therefore, according to you, allowing the Trust to obtain standing on behalf of the Trust members.
Question Number 3: How did you go from “KNOWING” ASD was a Ponzi when you attended the Miami Rally to now believing ASD was a legitimate business model?
Question Number 4: What made you and Larry think the DOJ would appoint you and Larry Friedman’s law firm as a receiver? It has been a known fact no receiver would be appointed in this case long before the Trust was even formed.
Question Number 5: What made you think that William Cowden or the Criminal Investigator had any duty to tell you anything?
This notion that you and only you hold the key to any of the Golden Panda or ASD members obtaining any kind of refund is sheer lunacy. As for you “KNOWING” more about ASD and Golden Panda than anyone, well let me just say whatever you are smoking, you can keep it.
But please enlighten me with anwering my questions. For if you don’t, then you are just as guilty as you claim William Cowden and the Criminal Investigator are for not answering your questions.
Bob,
I have been saying since August, THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A RECEIVER APPOINTED, not you, not anyone. There is no legal mechanism for it, this is not the SEC, it’s the Department of Justice, different Title, different law, and it is going to take 2-5 years, no matter what you do. And I have to ask, what delusion are you under that you think you can do anything about that? Even if it was an SEC case and they were contemplating a receiver, your wet dream of getting your hands on the money are flawed. First, it is the general practice for them to be forensic accountants, not lawyers. The accountants hire a lawyer for sure, but the job at hand is primarily accounting and not law. Second, any proposal that you or Mr. Freidman be appointed in any capacity would surely be opposed, not only on the grounds that a of people, people who matter, think you might just be a raving lunatic and a crook, but the fact is you are not only a convicted felon who has alienated a large block of the parties at action, but as a participant you cannot be considered a neutral arbiter, nor at this point can Larry. This doesn’t even take into account that fact that as someone who fell for this obvious scam, you have unquestionably demonstrated that you lack basic business acumen to be put in charge of any funds in a fiduciary role, and Larry’s comments that ASD was not a ponzi would also disqualify him. Do you even realize that a large number of people are laughing at you on a daily basis? Not people like me, I do it in public because I think you’re a buffoon and want to highlight that to anyone who might still consider sending you money etc… for you to handle this. But I’m the least of your worries in this, there are people who are in positions of influence on this that are laughing just as loud as me, only not in public because it would just not do for them to mock you so.
And finally, I cannot help but think you have violated a bookfull of laws in your other efforts aside from ASDMBA. If you’re not lying about getting some people there money back, money in excess of half a million dollars you say, I’d be very worried about that if I were you. I would not be surprised to see you indicted for obstruction of justice and several other charges for that little episode. In short, you’re not doing anything except possibly getting in the way of a federal criminal and civil case and I don’t think that’s something I’d want to get involved in. I said long and loud when you were soliciting funds for your trust or whatever you say it is this week that no money sent to you would give anyone any advantage in getting a refund over any other participant who didn’t support you, and I was right about that. You are not going to get anyone anything they can’t get by setting back and waiting for the case to be resolved. You very well may go to prison for some of the stuff you’ve already done.
So, if you really want to help, (not something I’m convinced of) the best thing you could do is wind up the ASDMBA, and fade to black. It’ll be a lot less entertaining than your antics so far, but it’ll be better for everyone, you included.
Look up the matter of Blake A Prater and Wellspring Capital. The SEC issued a C&D in 2003, he was sentenced in 2007. By that time, Bryan Marsden, his protege, had founded PIPS, watched it soar, seen it crash like all Ponzi’s do and found himself imprisoned in Malaysia awaiting trial…he’s still on trial.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ct/Case%20Updates/Prater05142007.pdf
In the case of ASD, the Secret Service acted within a month of receiving information that Andy had been parading around his Presidential “medal of distinction” raising money and dining with Dick Cheney. The FBI typically takes months or years before they act and then it take years to get a resolution.
In fairness to Cowden and his office, they did not have months or years of investigative time to put together a case before the seizure of funds. His office has to connect all the dots and figure out who’s worth pursuing. After gaining control of the database, he’s been seizing the accounts of selected “winners”.
The only way to affect this case in any manner, to my knowledge, is to petition Judge Collyer’s Court…and not with some Arby’s Indian pro se demand or amicus curiae filing.
If Lucy is still giving psychiatric advice for a nickel…oh, I won’t go there…
Bob:
For someone who claims to know so much, you know so little. As to why criminal charges have not been filed yet against Andy is really quite simple. They don’t need or have to yet. They have plenty of time to build and solidify their case. Even a person watching Perry Mason, LA Law, or Law & Order knows this, but somehow has escaped your vast superior knowledge.
The Feds are sitting on the money because Chief Arby Cheeseburger and his band of Indians keep filing silly pro se motions, along with Andy. Until these motions are ruled on, the civil case will not conclude, and that means the criminal charges are being delayed. Once Criminal charges have been filed, the clock starts ticking. They won’t file criminal charges until the civil case has been settled. Start blaiming the parties that are delaying this, not the government. You are sounding like the hanger-on conspiracy members of the Surf’s Up crowd.
But since you “KNOW” more about the ASD case than anyone, how could you not know this?
There will be a court appointed receiver/administrator if Judge Collyer rules that way, or if the AG decides that’s what they want to do, or if the Government prevails and is awarded the money, they will simply keep it. Read the statute, a Forfieture in Rem requires no return of assets to anyone.
I have no illusion, nor desire, of getting my hands on the money or being a receiver, I simply want to get as much back to the ASDMBA members as possible, starting with the $33M in cashiers checks seized in the ASD raid and illegally deposited.
Gregg, or whatever you name is, I could give a flying f–k if all 100,000 ASD members laugh at me, its the 1600 plus ASDMBA members in good standing I care about.. You think you know so much, you know nothing first hand, everything you “know” you have gathered from the internet.. Have you been to DC? Have you received documents and exchanges with William Cowden? Have you talked to Andy and his lawyers,
And on and on, of course not, We have.. As for retreiving the money, actually some $750,000 plus. Cowan knows about it, I supplied him the documentation, helped show hom how and where the money was and have identified where there are 100’s of winners. Cowden is understaffed and over worked, This isnt his only case.. BUT, he went about it wrong, and if Andy wasn’t so dirty, the Feds might have very well lost the case..
Nothing happens in DC by sitting and waiting, nothing.. I, and the ASDMBA, are in full compliance with the laws of Texas and with all Federal laws. Who do you think we are, a dumb ass bunch of ASD “get rich quick” deamers. I put my money in ASD for one reason.That was to study the system, to get inside and see how they were raising $35-$40M a month.
Go to prison, you are hilarious..
You and Jack both. Only he spent a lot less than $5500.
But it is different when Bob does it. It is only dumb when others do the same thing.
Bob Guenther started the ASDMBA with a couple of other people, who then pùlled out when they realised how he was behaving, amongst other things. He has told anyone who would listen to him at the time that he was not doing this for the good of his health, but because he would get something out of it. He held private fund raising telephone meetings in Texas shortly after the formation of the ASDMBA . He told people he was going to run a “legal” version of ASD. He told people that he had spent 5,000$ to have the ASD programme tested and that the basic model worked. Then he told us on an open call that he had spent 50,000$ to find out that it didnt.
He told us he had invested 5,000, 10,000, 30,000$ (depending on the day of the week and who he was speaking to) in ASD. He did commment that after meeting Andy Bowdoin, or seeing him on stage, he was not impressed, BUT at no time did he join as a “sleuth” as he says he now did. He joined to make money, as did some of his friends and regretted it after ASD was raided.
He then “discovers” ASD was not sustainable and that Andy Bowdoin did not have clean hands and decides to turn into a “super sleuth” (on behalf of the ASDMBA members, winners included!!LOL)
And while he is playing super sleuth, he starts using the ASDMBA as a recruitment platform for a gaming MLM that has taken his fancy (with the subsequent site changes included on our bill)
I am sure that, along with anyone else who has privately decided to cooperate with the AGs office, Bob MAY have given the AG one or two pieces of information that he didnt already have to add to his collection. However, it would not be wrong to assume that the Secret Service have that title BECAUSE they do not tell everyone what they know and who they know about – and especially on the internet, or to people who are likely to repeat it publicly, like Bob.
Yes, there are quite a few people who know how the AG’s office works and their problems of understaffing,budget and speed. And one way they DONT work is to shout names from the roof tops and tell people what is going on. My guess is that the AG didnt tell anyone about the proffer letter because he didnt want them to know about it at that stage!! His silence on that score has surely assisted his prosecution case during the past months.
And the people who knowingly shout names and information, like Bob, when accurate, provide an early warning system for those who do not deserve it. and could well be accused of obstruction of a government investigation.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Or to put it another way, it is only smart when performed by a demi-god by the name of Jack Arons.
If that were true, Bob, you would have sent me my $100 back last December when I first asked for it. THAT would be a GUARANTEED way to “get as much back to the ASDMBA members as possible.” Same thing for all the others who asked.
Roxy
Um, yeah, we get it. again.
Hi Lynn,
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. As you know, the funny thing about that phrase “limping along” is that the surf operators can pocket nice sums of cash even if the surf doesn’t “take off” virally.
The core criminality of the autosurf business is that liabilities can be wiped away by fiat and incoming revenue gets treated as “profit.”
ASD, by appearance, was limping along — just another in a long line of surfs.
But at one point “Russian” hackers reportedly stole $1 million. If that’s true — or if the money was removed by somebody else — it’s very telling. It’s basically a license to steal with impunity, and prosecutors said Andy Bowdoin never filed a police report.
In essence, what it means is that the program sponsors can take large sums any time they please. In other words, the surf may be “limping along” from the point of view of membership growth and even revenue growth — but the existing revenue can vanish at any point, and the owner then can hide behind “rebates aren’t guaranteed.”
Or perhaps rename the surf and port over old accounts from the predecessor surf to sustain the deception.
The December forfeiture complaint tells a tale of exactly that happening inside ASD. It was filed during the prelaunch buzz phase for AdViewGlobal.
Now prosecutors have stated on the record that Bowdoin has signed a proffer letter and acknowledged that the material allegations in the August complaint all are true.
There also have been reports that additional bank accounts have been seized in the ASD case.
Investigations tend to expand to accommodate the fact set. Some people seem to believe that investigators just sat on their hands after filing the August forfeiture case. It just doesn’t work that way — as the December forfeiture complaint plainly shows.
The prosecution even cited specific check numbers. They used the name of a second bank. They reverse-engineered transactions and linked them all back to ASD. They had business records and receipts, for instance. They talked to family members. They had recordings and/or transcripts. Indeed, a transcriptionist’s notes appear to be present in the document.
They weren’t sitting on their hands. At one point, they obtained a proffer from Bowdoin.
Entertained pointed out that they don’t really need his statement. Here’s one potential reason why: mail fraud.
They wouldn’t have cited the 13 S. Calhoun Street address for ASD if it weren’t important to their theory of the case. They wouldn’t have taken a photo of the ASD sign listing the address. Indeed, it looks as though the Secret Service was on the ground in Quincy prior to the filing of the August forfeiture complaint. The December complaint was the product of an evolving investigation.
Regards,
Patrick
Roxy,
Of all people Roxy, YOU are the last person I would send your $100 back to. You got your money’s worth the first 2 telephone conferences calls.
I know this is hard for you to understand, BUT, (BY EXAMPLE) you don’t form a 501 (c)3, collect CONTRIBUTIONS then give the money back to a few disgruntled people because they have a change of mind when things just are not to their liking. 1600 people voluntarily sent their money in to the ASDMBA, without a contract, without any PROMISE except we would TRY to get the members money back. That first call for voluntary CONTRIBUTIONS was on August 8, 2008. They very fact I am still responding to some disgruntled “ROXY” with nothing better to do than “whine”, about her $100, almnost 9 months later, I think justifies your $100 contribution. That is your claim right, $100, or have you assummed the rights of some other ASDMBA member. You are both in ther same state right?
Get a life.. You sent the ASDMBA $100, you probably didnt out more than $1000, if that into ASD.
By the way Roxy, what is your ASD member numbert. Mine is 66218..
Over 1600 ASDMBA Members Roxy, less than 2% have requested a refund or have sent me anythoing negative, go back and lookat all the postings here and on the other blogs, LESS THAN 50 people, all the same whinners, belly achers, wanna be arm chair lawyers, internet gurus and no bodies with more time on their hands than sense..
I got a idea Roxy, why not start pertition, get a website going, get everyone who is mad at the ASDMBA to sign up with their REAL NAME address phone number, email address amount they put in ASD, when, where and their ASD number.. let’s see how many people you can get.. The ADSurf ning has tried that for 6 months, the ASD-Biz tried that, nothing more than the same small group of idiots..
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.. All you genious or is that genius, how do you spell it Roxy?
Yes, people gave VOLUNTARILY to the ASDMBA because of the representations made publicly by Bob Guenther and Larry Friedman.
When it started to become apparent that Bob G was no longer willing to act in the interests of ALL the ASDMBA members (which included winners) many asked for their money back. Some did not for fear of being “called out” publicly on open phone lines by Bob, now turned only Trustee for the ASDMBA money. Hardly surprising, since he had now forgotten the basis on which the ASDMBA was set up – to prove the business model and gain standing – and understood the need to explain to the paying members of ASDMBA WHY he had changed the course of ASDMBA.
Many months and no action regarding standing later, other members started asking questions and wanting money refunded, as it was dawning on them that the ASDMBA was now the sole property of Bob L. Guenther, who was using the association and the funds how he chose, when he chose and because he chose.
Then the trouble started!
Bob – the only thing anyone wants from you now is a detailed accounting of what you did with the money we sent.PERIOD
We do NOT want you to be “our hero” and chase up anyone with your threats etc etc and do not believe that you have any chance of getting anyone’s money returned by the AG, as you are no longer persona grata with either the AGs office or anywhere else. In fact the thought of the AG letting you anywhere near the ASD members money makes me shudder, especially with your appaling record of accountability for other peoples’ money.
You may well have already caused problems for those Golden Panda members whose cheques you retrieved, as they may not be permitted to keep them, as losses may have to be shared pro rata, so your heroics on that score may end up has having done the GPMBA members a bad turn.
Noone believes that you joined ASD to research it – and certainly not for 5,500$. You got conned just the same as everyone else. What we do doubt is your motives for starting up ASDMBA. You have said far too much to too many people for that to be credible.
Everyone seems to want their money back from ASDMBA, although many are scared of being harranged in public by you for trying. Roxy has more courage than many, but being brave enought to stand up to your bully tactics was not a criteria for paying money to the ASDMBA Trust.
I dont thinbk there is anyone left who wants you to lead a money return from the Government. If you have valuable information for the AG – share it discretely with his office without demanding reward or recognition, in the interests of helping ASD members and as a good citizen.
And stop telling people to PUT UP or SHUT UP. I suggest that the one that should PUT UP and SHUT UP is you.
CORRECTIOM – “and understood the need to explain to the paying members of ASDMBA WHY he had changed the course of ASDMBA.”
Should read
“did not understand the need to explain to the paying members of ASDMBA WHY he had changed the course of ASDMBA.”
I will give you ONE reply because you’re not worth wasting my time on beyond that. I won’t believe ANY reply you give, so don’t bother with that either, it’s all drivel as far as I am concerned.
So you understand what I am doing here, Bob, as I know it’s hard for you to follow logical thinking, I’ll copy and paste your words and then my reply.
(Quote from Bob) “Of all people Roxy, YOU are the last person I would send your $100 back to. You got your money’s worth the first 2 telephone conferences calls.” And how would that be the case, Bob? In the first place, you have no idea how many calls I was one, let alone “the first 2 telephone conference calls.” If you look back in your records, assuming you can locate them, you’ll see I did not join the moment you started the ASDMBA, so the “first 2 telephone conference calls were long gone by the time I heard of you. What WAS on the conference call, with Kath Danch fielding questions, was my request about whether you knew how to get my cashier’s check money back from TCF as someone on another forum posted they had done. Kath read the question, you said you knew exactly and precisely how to do this but “couldn’t say so on an open line” so therefore instructed me to send you email “proving” who I was with my name and ASD #. I did this. I have the emails, Bob. On the basis that you KNEW and were going to tell me on the phone how I could get my money back from TCF Bank, I also sent in $100 to the ASDMBA, go back and look when it arrived. It was right after you said the “minimum contribution†would be $100.00, after berating those who had sent less. I sent you the “proof†of who I am, and my check to the ASDMBA. You avoided me for several days and when you finally decided to take my call about TCF, you said “I have no idea how to do that. All I know is Minnesota has some odd banking laws.” So, that was lie #1 to me on a personal basis. Whatever you think I may have learned on those calls is a fantasy of your own creation as I learned nothing from them except that you could be verbally abusive to those on the call and online, and that you lied on the call and to me personally.
(Quote from Bob) “I know this is hard for you to understand, BUT, (BY EXAMPLE) you don’t form a 501 (c)3, collect CONTRIBUTIONS then give the money back to a few disgruntled people because they have a change of mind when things just are not to their liking.” No, Bob, it’s not hard for me to understand how a LEGITIMATE 501(c)3 organization works at all. But you are not one, never were one, and use of this “example” is a flawed argument. Further, LEGITIMATE 501(c)3 organizations publish PUBLIC TAX FORMS called 990’s. They have Boards of Trustees UNrelated to the organization via pocketbook, who generally work for FREE, Bob. They publish lists of projects they are involved in, documentation of their collections, expenses and results of the programs they engage in. You have done NONE of this. This comparison is a flawed argument that all can see right through, Bob. UNLESS you’re now claiming the ASDMBA has morphed yet again, this time into a 501(c)3. Is that it, Bob?
(Quote from Bob)”You sent the ASDMBA $100, you probably didnt out more than $1000, if that into ASD.By the way Roxy, what is your ASD member numbert. Mine is 66218″ No doubt you mean I PUT no more than $1000 in ASD, which is totally an ERRONEOUS assumption on your part, Bob. I know you’d love to get your hands on the database to find out exactly how much I put in, but it’s much more than $1,000.00. I just have no need to blab it all over the place for your use. As for my ASD number, you surprise me, no, I take that back. Nothing you say surprises me, as long as I remember it’s all fantasy. As for your request, you have this information, Bob. YOU required me to email it to you before you would tell me the “secret†about getting my money back from TCF. I told it to you when I spoke with you (which was just once, we never spoke about the refund request as you suggested in a previous post, just about the TCF bank question), AND YOU HAVE IT IN THE ASDMBA DATABASE!!! There are several copies of it floating around the internet, if you need one, look there. :)
(Quote from Bob) “1600 people voluntarily sent their money in to the ASDMBA, without a contract, without any PROMISE except we would TRY to get the members money back.” WRONG. The audio file I have a copy of is from the week after the seizure and YOU ask Larry F. if action will be taken as soon as within a week or so and HE replies YES, that’s right. THAT was part of my basis, and perhaps the basis of others as well, for sending money. It’s recorded, Bob, a matter of public record. Of course, you never shared the Trust document did you, so no one was the wiser as to what you were really doing. Further, early on in the process, when people DID ask for refunds, YOU authorized them and had them sent out. A list of those persons was on the internet on the ASDMBA page, though it was removed by, oh, let me guess, by YOU, Bob. Or are you playing the childish game of “But I didn’t PROMISE it! I had my fingers crossed the whole time!â€?
(Quote from Bob) “They very fact I am still responding to some disgruntled “ROXY†with nothing better to do than “whineâ€, about her $100, almnost 9 months later, I think justifies your $100 contribution. That is your claim right, $100, or have you assummed the rights of some other ASDMBA member. You are both in ther same state right?” Okay, this is so comical I can’t stand it! Your time posting on the internet is worth $100? Maybe to you, but not in my book. You’re just not happy that I keep bringing up the question, truth be told. Your time isn’t worth 2 cents, Bob, at least not to me. My contribution was $100, I have never said I want anyone else’s money, Bob, that’s just another tactic of yours to deflect the question. There are other ASDMBA members in Minnesota, but I have never purported to speak for anyone other than myself, so your attempt to confuse the issue is futile. You could have saved yourself all this bad press by sending back my $100.00 last December, as you said during the calls you would do for anyone who asked. And you’d have all that free time on your hands too.
(Quote from Bob) “Over 1600 ASDMBA Members Roxy, less than 2% have requested a refund or have sent me anythoing negative, go back and lookat all the postings here and on the other blogs, LESS THAN 50 people, all the same whinners, belly achers, wanna be arm chair lawyers, internet gurus and no bodies with more time on their hands than sense.” First, on what basis do you even think I would take any numbers about anything from you, be it expenses or complaints? Just because they aren’t posted online doesn’t mean they don’t exist, Bob, and I wouldn’t say you’ve been forthcoming enough with basic accounting questions to rely on for complaint information. There are many ASD members who have just walked away from things, feeling so abused by the whole incident that they just stopped checking into their options. A friend of mine who got into ASD long before I did originally sent her money to Larry and was unaware he was doing refunds until I recently told her. So to say that only 2% have requested a refund just means that people are possibly not keeping up on the ASD case, nothing more than that. Many of them are so heartbroken that they don’t want to think of anything related to ASD OR the ASDMBA. Further, though you originally said refunds would be given, you’ve repeatedly said that’s not the case now, so why WOULD anyone else make the request? So, if it’s less than 50 folks, Bob, why not just send the money back and shut us all up, hm? Even Larry sees the sense in paying out of his own pocket to do this. Is he THAT much brighter than you?
(Quote from Bob) “I got a idea Roxy, why not start pertition, get a website going, get everyone who is mad at the ASDMBA to sign up with their REAL NAME address phone number, email address amount they put in ASD, when, where and their ASD number.. let’s see how many people you can get.. The ADSurf ning has tried that for 6 months, the ASD-Biz tried that, nothing more than the same small group of idiots.” Obviously you have no concept of what the Ning group is about and to say the AdSurf and ASD-Biz groups are doing the same thing, well, that just proves you have NO clue about so very much.
(Quote from Bob)”PUT UP OR SHUT UP.. All you genious or is that genius, how do you spell it Roxy?” Too bad you can’t construct a proper sentence or run spell check, Bob. And as to your “put up or shut up” remark, that’s exactly what I am doing. I am putting up my experience online for all to read and learn from, both with the ASDMBA and Larry Friedman. You’d like me to shut up, but that just isn’t in the cards, Bob.
Have a nice day.
Roxy Lewis, Ning #9
Still in Minnesota
Still not intimidated by Texans of any ilk
Alasycia,
Well said!
Roxy Lewis
Ning #9
Which brings up the point that you have to be state and federally registered to take contributions from the public via the Internet if you are a 501(c)3 and release release your tax returns. I don’t see the registration numbers on the website.
So what is it? A trust? A 501c3?
Whatever it is, you are required to tell your investors, contributors, victims, whatever you wish to call them and provide a public accounting. Not complying with regulations and being able to answer simple, one sentence questions is what got Andy in trouble.
Wait a second, is convicted felon Bob Guenther (search engine optimization) claiming that ASDMBA is a 501 3(c)?
Is this true Bob?
If it is, let me have the address where I can send to request audited financial statements (you are required by law to do this)
If it’s not, you need to clarify that, cause as it’s written above you could be construed to be claiming it is, and that’s a felony, rookie.
Great Post Roxy!
Bob:
Remember that BIG TIME Lawyer in Florida that you were going to contact and file some type of action against me? Well, may I suggest that you contact him and see if he will represent you in whats going to be coming your way direct from Florida and a few other states whose AG’s do not take kindly to their residents being conned out of their money by a low life like you who can not keep his story straight.
Florida 240 members/investors/contributors
Iowa 100
Nebraska 76
Minn 157
Calf 224
I had a very interesting conversation with a good buddy of yours the other day and his new lawyer. Seems that the 5,500.00 that you claim to have put into ASD was a lot more than that…much more to be exact. How much did your son put in and his buddies that he is serving with in the military? Oh we really should not forget the other people that you convinced to put up the big dollars and invest in ASD and Golden Panda. How about your Lawyer too! Was that not 75,000.00? Lets not also mention the money that David Jenkins put in and your other family members all of whom you have since reimbursed.
That is right I forgot you only put in enough so that you could find out how the business model worked so you could start your own ASD.
As I said before you are not the smartest ape in the bunch. Now, you know that most of us will be checking to see if we can again prove that you are lying when we check to see if the Trust (oops not a legal Texas Trust) was registered as a 501. This is sure fun!
Keep up the good work Bob you are driving those nails deeper and deeper into your own coffin and anyone else who happens to call you a friend.
I do have one question for you.
Can I get a picture of you in your PINK Jumpsuit?
So Gregg, why is it only certain people like Bob and Andy have trouble answering these types of simple, one sentence questions?
Every other organization can answer them AND get them right the first time. You can also send off for their financials AND get a packet in the mail after a reasonable amount of time.
Robert L Guenther had an agenda to benefit and profit for himself from the minute he figured out it was a Scam and that he too had been scammed….nothing he did was for the “benefit’ of anyone else….This was absolutely True:
alasycia
April 26, 2009 at 1:58 am | Permalink
Bob Guenther started the ASDMBA with a couple of other people, who then pùlled out when they realised how he was behaving, amongst other things. He has told anyone who would listen to him at the time that he was not doing this for the good of his health, but because he would get something out of it. He held private fund raising telephone meetings in Texas shortly after the formation of the ASDMBA . He told people he was going to run a “legal†version of ASD. He told people that he had spent 5,000$ to have the ASD programme tested and that the basic model worked. Then he told us on an open call that he had spent 50,000$ to find out that it didnt.
Within a matter of weeks after the ASDMBA got started, Guenther was doing calls suggesting HE could start and run a ‘Legal ASD”…..there are emails from folks that attended those calls and actual meetings….there were emails from people who had joined the ASDMBA on the basis of what was said and promised on the calls, then only to find out Guenther was trying to “Put his own deal together”. Letters and emails were sent to Friedman in Sept and Oct complaining that Guenther was trying to start his own ASD and also about his abusive language and behavior. All the Trustees and David Jenkins the accountant resigned from the ASDMBA in early September as soon as it was apparent what was going on was NOT what had been promised. It was at this point Robert L.Guenther became the de facto person running the ASDMBA along with Larry Friedman and they continued to do calls, collect money and do what they wished with the proceeds which was to basically split the money between themselves and never do an of the promised “legal representation’.
Sue
actually I already know the answer, and I believe it’s even available online, but I digress. Bob is a chimp, sometimes you dress them up and let them ride tri-cyces and that’s cute, but a lot of the time they’re just throwing feces through the bars of the cage.
Bob:
Glad to hear that ASDMBA is now a 501(c)3 Corporation, but do tell what tykpe of a 501(c)3 corporation is it? The IRS is quite surprised, however, because they can’t find your filing. To help them, please provide the ASDMBA’s EIN (you do have an EIN don’t you?), and date the papers were filed.
While you are at it, give us the date you filed your Articles of Incorporation with the Texas Secretary of State because they seem to be having the same problem as the IRS. What are the names of the Directors of your nonprofit corporation?
Now before you try to claim all of this information is confidential, wrong answer. See that is the beauty of a 501(c)3, all information is available to the public when asked, and you have been asked.
So we now have gone from the ASDMBA being a Trust, to a quasi-Trust, to not a Trust, and now a 501(c)3 corporation. Anyone want to guess what the next reincarnation of ASDMBA will be?
google robert krutko and do some reading. The resemblance is fascinating.
LOLOLOLOL. BRAVO! Great reading
http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/148543/Robert-Krutko-is-an-internet-infestation
and this!!! ROFL
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/stock-island-fl/T7PG1BJB2CDTICQOV
I know it is a bit off topic but Bob Cefail is striking again with a new (?) marketing system for AdGateWorld. Remember he was a 3rd party participant for ASD with ASD Offer Universe. One interesting point in the announcement is this:
“A major part of the system he will be describing was responsible for taking one surf related company from 10,000 members to over 100,000 in five months. They have been courted by all of Adgates competitors and after 6 months of study selected Adgate to not only build a system for existing members but to join as well! Their own database of prospects is over 600,000.”
Here is the entire email I received as part of someone’s list:
Bob Cefail is a crook, a scam artist and when Andy found him, or he found Andy, Cefalt was fresh out of prison and living in his car.
Next thing you know, he is all cleaned up and telling his “rags top riches” story at ASD Rally’s, up on stage with another piece of crap, Robert Fava, a convicted Sex Offender on probation since 2006..
http://www.iowasexoffender.com/sho.php?id=30677347&L_isonums=&sub=&lastone=
Andy then was somewhat blackmailed by Cefalt, who wanted more money from their “In TOuch Marketing”.. Andy refused, Cefalt stole the database, or most of it, and that my friends is where all that SPAM advertising all of you ASD Members get…
Another scam AdPacs http://www.adpacs.com/index.html is another ASD Knockoff run by a Steve Renner (an alias name, his actual name is Russian, Ill withhold it for now) Andy is getting a piece of it all, by getting free AdPacs or whatever the AdCredit name might be.
All this infomation has been supplied to William Cowden LAST OCTOBER…
From: Bob Guenther [mailto:bob@asdmembersbusinessassociation.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:44 AM
To: Cowden, William (USADC)
Cc: eleonard@fflawoffice.com; lfriedman@fflawoffice.com
Subject: THE NEW RESTYLED ASD “ADGATEWORLD”
Bill,
Go to the new ASD http://www.adgateworld.com/?ref=snewton
Busby, maybe Andy and many of the leaders, including Fava and former CEO Juan Fernandez are touting this site.. A virtual knockoff of the ASD program.
See attachment 1.. This woman is dumb enough to respond to MY request for more info..
Also look at the other attachment, which the registration of the name..
Georgia server, coincidence??
NOW READ THE FOLLOWING RESEARCH CAREFULLY.. For all of you who think you know what is going on down there in Florida…………….
Bob
See the server info on AdGate below…
RE: AdGateWorld
It appears that the main name associated with AdGateWorld is “Jack Schrold”
Ironically – he has a connection to ASD
Jack Schrold is an attorney who had a large stake in the ASD program.
He has a lot of experience in the online marketing industry and has formeda group of attorneys and marketing professionals to launch a MUCH improved version of ASD but on an International level.
In other words – he, and his personal information, including SS# should be on the ASD database.
Here is the information gathered on AdGateWorld:
Registration Service Provided By: NameCheap.com
Contact:
Visit: http://www.namecheap.com/
Domain name: adgateworld.com
Registrant Contact:
WhoisGuard
WhoisGuard Protected
8939 S. Sepulveda Blvd. #110 – 732
Westchester, CA 90045
US
Administrative Contact:
WhoisGuard
WhoisGuard Protected ()
+1.6613102107
Fax: +1.6613102107
8939 S. Sepulveda Blvd. #110 – 732
Westchester, CA 90045
US
Technical Contact:
WhoisGuard
WhoisGuard Protected ()
+1.6613102107
Fax: +1.6613102107
8939 S. Sepulveda Blvd. #110 – 732
Westchester, CA 90045
US
Status: Locked
Name Servers:
ns0.dnsmadeeasy.com
ns1.dnsmadeeasy.com
ns2.dnsmadeeasy.com
ns3.dnsmadeeasy.com
ns4.dnsmadeeasy.com
Creation date: 19 Aug 2008 00:49:28
Expiration date: 19 Aug 2009 00:49:28
http://www.adgateworld.com/?ref=karent
This company has their servers in Georgia and as you can see above they are from California.
Hostname http://www.adgateworld.com ISP Unknown
Country United States Country Code US (USA)
City Marietta Region Georgia
IP Address 64.207.2.170 Postal Code Unknown
Flag Latitude 33.9532
Local time* 20 Oct 2008 10:29
Longitude -84.5177
—————————————————————
Enom,Inc is the actual company that owns and operates AD GATE WORLD and they are registered in the State of Nevada under 52 different named companies.
SARAH AKHTAR COOPER
SARAH AKHTAR
MICHAEL BLEND
PAUL STAHURA
————————————————————–
Let me preface this by saying all the following information just references a person with the same NAME as Jack Schrold, so there would need to be a little more work to conclusively tie or NOT tie them together:
http://www.armywell-being.org/skins/…&AllowSSL=true
jschrold@adgateworld.com
(954)608-1716
Let me preface this by saying all the following information just references a person with the same NAME as Jack Schrold, so there would need to be a little more work to conclusively tie or NOT tie them together:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/05/schrold.shtm
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/12/schrold.shtm
And this old disciplinary action from the Florida Bar:
“Jack Schrold, 5338 N.W. 117th Ave., Coral Springs, suspended from practicing law in Florida, following an October 24 court order. (Admitted to practice: 1993) Schrold was convicted of knowledge of the commission of conspiracy and wire fraud, a felony, and sentenced to two years probation. (Case no. SC03-1822) ”
Which seems ironic that it’s still there IF it’s the same Jack who now runs services to expunge criminal records – although I suppose those aren’t official “records” per se.
Although, it seems this is likely the same Jack here as well:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/c…10/03-1822.pdf
Which again was a 2 year suspension:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/c…/04-360reh.pdf
Other info from Florida Supreme Court:
http://snipurl.com/supremeschrold
More from PIPL:
http://snipurl.com/piplschrold
Although those results need to be filtered.
And here are Jack’s defenders:
http://consumers.creditnet.com/Discu…und-46726.html
Other sites:
http://www.getcivilrights.com/
http://floridaexpunge.com/
http://isealrecords.com/
http://fxpaycheck.com/
Which seems ironic that it’s still there IF it’s the same Jack who now runs services to expunge criminal records – although I suppose those aren’t official “records” per se.
Although, it seems this is likely the same Jack here as well:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/c…10/03-1822.pdf
Which again was a 2 year suspension:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/c…/04-360reh.pdf
Other info from Florida Supreme Court:
http://snipurl.com/supremeschrold
More from PIPL:
http://snipurl.com/piplschrold
Although those results need to be filtered.
And here are Jack’s defenders:
http://consumers.creditnet.com/Discu…und-46726.html
Other sites:
http://www.getcivilrights.com/
http://floridaexpunge.com/
http://isealrecords.com/
http://fxpaycheck.com/
Post placed by Schrold on a site were programmers hang out.
Username: schrold
Name/Company: AdGateWorld
Location: Raleigh, NC, United States
Budget: $ 100-300
Status: Closed for Bidding
Project Creator:
schrold
Rating: (No Feedback Yet)
Required Skills: Gaming
Attached Files: (None)
Description
Hello,
I am looking to re-create the Pac Xon free game with different text and some variation of graphics as a potential viral FaceBook application to promote our new web site (AdGateWorld.com).
Premise would be that you are a new Advertiser seeking to collect ‘Ad credits’ (customers). Once the Advertiser gets the required % of new customers he moves up to the next corporate success level. The ‘bad guys’ chasing him are trying to steal his advertising budget and put him out of business.
Please provide some examples of your work.
jschrold@adgateworld.com
(954)608-1716
How about it Patrick Pretty.. You ready to write some new stuff, or you just want to keep publishing stuff we knoew last year and NO ONE bothered with..
Bob guenther
Wow, amazing (re: Bob Cefail and AdGateWorld).
It seems like all of the surf/ponzi owners think that they can hide behind the “Rebates are not guaranteed” defense. Simply incredible.
I did look at their site and they did address a few of the minor issues that tripped up ASD, but, the main issue is that it is a security.
Doubt me?
Google “Howie Test” and see for yourself.
The main facts in this U.S. Supreme Court decision from the ’40’s were:
(1) an investment of money, and;
(2) an anticipation of profit, and;
(3) results generated mainly by the efforts of others.
If these things are present, you have a security. That makes AdGateWorld a security and under the purview of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (regardless of where they are incorporated and domiciled).
These ponzi/surf owners will try to play fast and loose with the word investment in the Howie Test, but, they’ll get nailed eventually if they get big enough.
There is, of course, a way to make this system of theirs legal although still subject to the power of the Black Box.
But, I won’t post it here because someone will do it and then cause a lot of people, those that come in later in the game, to loose money.
Don’t want that!
Regardlesss, will be interesting to see what legs this ponzi has. I tend to think people are tired of these games and only the most desperate, the most criminal and the most stupid will participate.
But, hey, that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
I won’t participate of course, because I’m none of the above (I don’t think), and, more importantly, I. . ..
Respect the Black Box
All these autosurfs eventually fail because their basic premise is a falsity. They are not advertising companies that reward you for your loylaty, nor are they investment companies, because their intention is not to provide a safe investment.
They are little more than gambling houses, dressed up as businesses which ignore the bricks and mortar real life business world which is necessary for either of them to work.
p.s. The “news” about Bob Cefail would be more amazing if had been new when originally posted. What does seem clear is that Mr. Cefail is enjoying a certain level of immunity from pressure by the AG’s office, but, thereagain, I suspect that Mr. Cowden’s office was aware of Mr. Cefail’s existence long before Bobbie G and ASDMBA Allstars started playing.
Oh dear,
is it any wonder Blowhard can’t get any of the prosecution team to respond when he sends “information” like that as “evidence”
Secret Squirrel, he ain’t.
Blowhard says: Enom,Inc is the actual company that owns and operates AD GATE WORLD and they are registered in the State of Nevada under 52 different named companies.
Enom, Inc is the ICAN registrar, NOT the owner.
ENOM, Inc is a company which brands itself as a “domain register reseller” and webhost.
I certainly hope Mr Cowden and his staff are paid well for having to put up with being constantly bombarded by His Royal Blowhardness
[quote]I certainly hope Mr Cowden and his staff are paid well for having to put up with being constantly bombarded by His Royal Blowhardness
[/quote]
tossing turds between the bars….
You need to get out more Jenny, Cowden didn’t even know who Bob Cefail was until our visit with him in November 08, really, as dirty as ASD and Andy are, if the Feds are so damn smart, why are they still trying trying to get Andy, get the money and win the case, ONE YEAR TO THE DATE LATER??
Bobbie, Bobbie, Bobbie…….You still don’t get it, do you? Information on Bob Cefail has been very publicly available on the internet long before the AG intervened in ASD. Has it not sunk in yet that maybe the AG’s office doesnt feel they have to tell you everything they know?
How the heck can they “get” him any more than he’s already been “got” ????
This may be YOUR first time ’round the block, but, in the real world, this is as long as it always takes.
The scam has been stopped, no more money can be taken in.
Now the constitutional rights guaranteed to US citizens are being exercised, to say nothing of the time it will take to verfify 100,000 accounts and several squillion transactions.
The ONLY way it could proceed any faster is if Bowdoin does a “Madoff,” confesses and pleads guilty.
Otherwise, as has been pointed out numerous times before, it could easily take up to four years until Bowdoin is allocated his cell.
Undesirable and frustrating it may be, but, that’s the way it “is”.
To a very large extent the prosecutions’ hands are tied.
Bowdoin and his sycophants can, and probably will, dictate how long the process takes from here on in, based on exercising his/their constitutional right to question every single aspect of the prosecution and sentencing.
Is that right, then where is Madoff?? Q=When was the Ponzi discovered, when was the money seized, when was he arrested, and where is he NOW?
It takes as long as the Feds want it to.. Cowden blew this case from the start, then cut a deal with Busby and Bowdoin..
You people never, ever cease to amaze me…
Umm,
are you really that stupid or are you just playing at being so ???
Madoff CONFESSED,
Not only that, he confessed BEFORE anyone else was even aware there was a scam.
As for the money, the process of locating it has only just begun WITH the full co operation of the Madoff family. After all, it was his sons who actually did the “turning in”
The situation is “ever so slightly” different (and yes, that is said with extreme sarcasm)
Do you have any idea at all of how long it takes to audit an “autosurf”???
Especially when any fraudster worth his salt makes sure that records are kept to a minimum, money and asset hiding are the name of the game and everything possible has been done by the scammers to make it as hard as possible to trace ANYTHING.
You really SHOULD begin reading more than the comics in the newspaper and subscribe to more than just the “Soldier of Fortune” magazine before you make even more of a goose of yourself in public.
Hey Bob,
Errr. You seem to overlook the fact that Cowden seized Bowdoin’s cash within a month of becoming aware of the scam and secured Bowdoin’s proffer within six months of moving on ASD. Not bad. He can play his cards at his leisure. He’s also seized bank accounts of some of the big players and can follow the money trial where ever it leads.
In cases without a guilty plea (Madoff), the defendant can stay out of prison for years before paying the piper. The audit trail has not been completed as of yet and the government has not even named or indicted any co-conspirators six months after his arrest. Do you think he pulled it off all by his lonesome?
You still have not managed to:
1. State the corporate structure of ASDMBA. You have made various references to various types of structures.
2. Release any audited financial statements informing members of how you spent their money. “Screw you and sue me” is not a substitute for the former.
3. File any court documents on behalf of your contributors. 125k buys more than two plane tickets and a meeting in DC.
As usual, you ignore the basic questions people pose.
Great post DB. I think Bobbie would do himself a favor if he actually read it and answered the questions.
Hi Alasycia,
Bob hasn’t, to date, and likely never will answer direct questions about HIS behavior. He prefers entertaining people with dancing bananas as a substitute. If he actually does answer the above questions in a straight forward and honest manner, I will be shocked.
Different legal and corporate structures have specific reporting and compliance requirements and actually answering questions would let people know exactly what’s required of him, hence the dancing bananas.
On the other hand, Bob expects Cowden and others to answer directly to him even when they have no reason to do so. If Cowden screws up, the judge and/or appeals courts will hold him accountable which is how it should be. The Court is not going to require Cowden to get the Bob Geunther Dancing Banana Seal of Approval so he can post it on his website in order to have the case against ASD and promoters to move forward.
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