FOLLOW-UP: The Headline Flap Over Our AVG Story
EDITOR’S NOTE: We published a story Wednesday that some members of AdViewGlobal (AVG) assert is unfair. At issue — particularly from a poster who uses the handle “CORRECTION!” — is the headline that accompanied the story.
Another poster, “Pistol,” isn’t sympathic to the autosurf business and says he doesn’t suffer fools gladly on either side of the issue, but also raised a concern about the fairness of the headline. Meanwhile, other posters say the headline is fair. One of the issues is whether an AVG prospect can bypass AVG and purchase ad-packs directly from sponsors.
Here is some background, and our response to the concerns. We’ll start by republishing a comment Pistol made. Pistol’s reference to the “200% thingy” below is a reference to an AVG matching-bonus program.
The 200 percent program was advertised to have a June 29 expiration date, but AVG suddenly changed the expiration date to June 5. AVG members and prospects said they were concerned about not being able to get money to the company in time to qualify for the bonus, and an AVG promoter outlined a strategy by which members and prospects with “big bucks” could get the bonus by paying sponsors directly.
Pistol: It doesn’t seem to me that the sponsor in question is suggesting that sponsors should give/sell members adpacks/page impressions from them (the sponsors) but rather a quick and easy way that they can help new members get funds available so that they can buy adpacks directly from AVGA thereby qualifying for the 200% thingy.
OUR TAKE: During the first FOUR steps of what is described as the sponsor’s bid to provide a “quick and easy way” for prospects to buy ad-packs “directly” from AVG, the sponsor:
1.) Gathers money from the prospect and makes a private agreement with the prospect that the final recipient of the funds will be AVG and that the funds will be used to purchase ad-packs.
2.) Deposits the funds in the sponsor’s local bank.
3.) Causes a wire to be sent to an offshore payment processor or sends a check via overnight mail to the offshore payment processor.
4.) Waits for the payment processor to receive the funds and credit the sponsor’s account.
That’s FOUR steps — or FIVE, if you count the private agreement as a separate step — so an argument that positions this as a purchase made “directly” from AVG isn’t a very compelling one.
This deal cannot happen as the promoter describes, absent a private agreement between the sponsor and the prospect and subterfuge aimed at the local bank. Moreover, it can’t happen without use of the bank’s wire facility or use of a banking instrument, and it necessarily must involve the offshore processors because the prospect can’t wire funds to AVG directly.
There’s that word again — “directly.” With the exception of the prospect’s direct payment to the sponsor, there is virtually nothing direct about this transaction.
At this point, the prospect’s bank thinks he is doing business with the sponsor, the sponsor’s bank thinks he is doing business with the prospect, and the payment processor thinks it is doing business with the sponsor.
ONLY the prospect and the sponsor know that AVG is the intended final recipient — and they haven’t told anybody, FOUR or FIVE steps into the process.
Additional Steps
In the next step, the sponsor tells the offshore payment processor that AVG is the intended recipient, but the payment processor doesn’t know the prospect is hidden in the deal or is choosing not to know. The prospect’s role is to give money to the sponsor, so he can use the sponsor’s bank to get the money to the offshore processor in an environment that is conducive for AVG and most advantageous for the prospect.
The payment processor obliges the sponsor and wires the money to AVG, but the transaction still is at least TWO steps away from completion, because the money or the value thereof somehow has to get back in the hands of the real customer, the prospect.
So, the sponsor funds his AVG account, so he can use AVG’s internal system to get the money or the value thereof to the real customer, the prospect, for the purchase of ad-packs.
A sale made “directly” through AVG? Hardly. This process is at least SEVEN steps removed from a direct transaction with AVG and perhaps as many as EIGHT. This sale cannot occur — and the prospect cannot get the 200 percent bonus — unless the prospect pays the sponsor directly. The sponsor is getting paid directly for the purchase of ad packs.
Here, a person might want to ask why the prospect in search of a matching bonus before a deadline passes just can’t send the money to AVG directly and have it credited immediately. That’s the question some AVG members are asking right now. In fact, they asked it as soon as the sponsor laid out the strategy, and some AVG members are complaining out loud about money procedures that appear to be convoluted and complex.
A person also might want to ask why AVG isn’t using PayPal, and instead is using the offshore surfing favorites: SolidTrustPay and StrictPay. PayPal does not touch this kind of business because it is fraught with secret agendas.
Worth Noting
It’s worth pointing out that some of the government personnel involved in the AdSurfDaily (ASD) case also were involved in the successful prosecution of e-Gold, which basically was accused of looking the other way while it processed payments for people who were laundering money.
ASD, a Florida company federal prosecutors say once used e-Gold and engaged in wire fraud, money-laundering and the sale of unregistered securities, has close ties to AVG.
AVG, for example, lists ASD President Andy Bowdoin’s stepson — George Harris — as a “Trustee” of the AVG “private association.” Judy Harris, the wife of George Harris, also is listed as an AVG “Trustee.”
A home and a car prosecutors say George and Judy Harris acquired with money from ASD was seized as the proceeds of a criminal enterprise in a December forfeiture complaint filed by the Feds.
One of the issues in the e-Gold case was secret money transactions, and look what’s happening in the strategy outlined by the AVG promoter: The banks don’t know that the prospect and the sponsor just worked together to get funds to a final beneficiary unknown to the bank — AVG — and the processor doesn’t know the prospect is hidden in the deal or may be choosing not to know.
Incongruous Messages
AVG purports to be headquartered in Uruguay, has servers that resolve to Panama, receives money from offshore processors in Canada and Panama, but issued a news release this week with a dateline of Tallahassee.
Many of our readers probably noticed that AVG didn’t use the words “Uruguay” or “Panama” or “offshore” in its news release, but then immediately sent members an email purported to have originated in Uruguay — to celebrate a news release with a Tallahassee dateline.
It’s a message hopelessly at odds with itself. It is particularly incongruous because AVG also now claims it provides professional PR services — but just look at what is happening:
AVG can’t reconcile its own message. It is creating the appearance that it is in Tallahassee when it wants to look clean and proper — indeed, some people now say it is selling legitimate services priced from $30,000 to $200,000 — but it’s in Uruguay when it wants “advertising” rotator cash from folks who need to believe the Securities and Exchange Commission can’t touch them offshore.
How do those competing notions come into balance? And why would a company that says it can command legitimate fees of up to $200,000 from clients not be running like a man on fire to exit the autosurf business? Incredibly, one promoter said today that AVG’s plan is to remain in the surf business and use the fees it collects for legitimate services to fund the surf.
In the strategy outlined by the promoter, where is the money that started out at a local bank now? Uruguay? Panama? Florida? Elsewhere? And what routes will it take in the form of payouts to get back to members so it becomes spendable in their hometowns?
The Headline Flap
As many of our readers know, “CORRECTION!” is none too happy about this headline, which appears on this Blog.
AdViewGlobal Promoter Says Prospects Can Bypass Company And Purchase Ad-Packs Directly From Sponsors To Ensure They Get Credited With 200 Percent Match Before Deadline
CORRECTION repeatedly has demanded a retraction, although he has not identified himself as an AVG spokesperson or person in position of authority at AVG to bring a concern to our attention and ask for a clarification or a retraction. At the same time, CORRECTION will not answer basic questions about AVG’s business practices or provide evidence of verifiable income streams to refute concerns AVG is selling unregistered securities and operating as a Ponzi scheme.
Let’s take the headline sections one at a time:
/AdViewGlobal Promoter Says/
Yes, it was an AVG promoter who shared the strategy of prospects paying sponsors directly and engaging in a process that involves at least SEVEN steps and ultimately results in the purchase of ad-packs. (AVG calls ad-packs “page impressions” or “viewer impressions.”)
/Prospects Can Bypass Company/
Yes, the prospect bypasses the company and pays money directly to the sponsor, under the strategy outlined by the promoter. The only thing AVG does in this transaction is make sure the electrons settle in the proper places when told to do so.
/And Purchase Ad-Packs Directly From Sponsors/
Yes, the sponsor is selling ad-packs directly because he directly collects the money for the ad-packs, routes the money offshore, causes it to be delivered to AVG, funds his own AVG account with his prospects’ money, and then causes AVG to redistribute the funds or the value thereof to complete the sale. In this case, the sponsor is more directly involved in the sale of ad-packs than AVG itself.
/To Ensure They Get Credited With 200 Percent Match Before Deadline/
Yes, this whole strategy was published because someone wanted to know the quickest way a person with $10,000 could get the money to AVG before the deadline to qualify for the 200 percent match.
The promoter said it was a way to take care of the folks with “big bucks.”
I am afraid I must demand an immediate retraction!!!!!!! I thought it was “CORRECTION!” that made all the retraction requests. OK, so here I go..
retract,retract,retract x 35
Hi Don,
Yes, indeed, it was “CORRECTION!” I made the changes. I was thinking about “CORRECTION’S” concerns.
Thanks.
Patrick
Patrick,
You almost did it, but no retraction today huh? You could have made it right, instead you explain it away. Well at least it is a start. Thank you! I am going to leave now and not be back. I’ve gone too far here already. AVGA has the PR professionals and they will do a great job of articulating the value of AV Global Associates products, services and business opportunity using only company approved materials. Thanks to those of you who fealt my pain and passion on Wednesday. All I ever demanded is fairness and accuracy. Is that too much to ask? Goodbye…thanks again.
This “tactic” was used to great effect by “uplines” during the P.I.P.S. and 12Daily Pro scams.
Leaving aside the obvious money laundering potential, the major problems for “members” who do avail themselves of the “service” is NOT, as may be imagined, being involved in money laundering, but rather what happens next.
Those “on the inside” who are holding large numbers of “ad packs/page impressions and who know exactly when the end is near can easily convert their “soon to be worthless” holdings into cold, hard cash via the method described above.
In effect, this leaves the purchaser in a worse situation than regular “members” if and when the inevitable happens.
1) They usually have dealt with a “name only” upline, making tracing of them near on impossible.
2) They have dealt with a)anonymity protecting b)offshore
payment processors
3) They have done all transactions through 2, 3 or 4 sets of “hands”
4) They haven’t dealt with the “company” making them ineligible for any form of receivership or criminal compensation, should there be any.
5) They will solely responsible for any recovery attempts.
6) While “members” at least have “numbers on a screen” until they have cash in their hands, people who use this method don’t even have that. They are, in effect, being asked to send money to a total stranger with NO legal protection and absolutely NO recourse should ANYTHING go wrong.
Hey CORRECTION!! Guess what? I just filed complaints with my state’s attorney general and Florida attorney general’s office concerning AVG and the sale of unregistered securities :)
Have a nice day!
Odds on CORRECTION! being gone for good? Pretty slim….
What he/she missed is, the headline is accurate, although as Pistol points out it could be misleading. It could be misleading as in: “I think the headline would cause me to think that AVG condones/supports upline criminals from taking money directly from new sheep in order to facilitate the speed with which they will be fleeced.” In that context, I suppose one could construe the headline to be misleading (but not inaccurate). Don’t forget how easy it is to “mislead” the cult followers of ASD and AVG. One MUST be trivially easily misled, and really want to believe in money-for-nothing, to join AVG in the first place. Is it a stretch for such people to be misled by Patrick’ headline? Probably not, but grounds for a retraction? Hardly. CORRECTION! fails to make any salient points arguing for a retraction (and it isn’t that hard to do so), and of course he could have started by pointing out evidence for the legality of AVG (and per usual was silent on that topic).
Speaking of CORRECTION, is it me or does CORRECTION sound a lot like Kali from the Surf’s Up forum?
OK Patrick, here is the bottom line:
Does the sponsor quoted by you, suggest that the sponsor transfer adpacks/impressions from his/her own “holdings” of same? The only mention of transfers that I see in the snippets you have posted is the sponsor transferring money to the member.
Now, the sponsor may very well say that in his/her original post but unless and until I see it in the original and unedited post, I stand by my statement that your headline is misleading simply because it states that is what the sponsor said. Did he?
I am not suggesting that it is not possible to transfer adpacks between members,although CORRECTION says it is not but I have no way of knowing. I know the money trail in this scenario is long and convoluted and probably designed to confuse but I do think it is important that what is said and by whom is accurately reported.
I also know, as has been mentioned by others, that these sort of tricks have been pulled before, many times. It is usually a sign that the ponzi endgame has begun.
Let no one be in any doubt that I do not seek to defend CORRECTION and his/her ilk and their scams. I do not. I detest the lot of them.
Pistol,
I stand by my reporting on this issue.
AVG always has the option of denying/confirming that ad-packs can be transferred between members — either by simply shifting ad-packs to another member or by funding an account and shifting the funds to another member’s account for the purchase of ad-packs.
If AVG has a back-office facility that enables members to transfer money between themselves, it could explain some of the “offshore” jazz. In the United States, state and federal regulators could view such a facility as an unlicensed money-services business (MSB) — if no licenses, registrations and compliance are in place, of course.
Some FinCEN background:
http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/amimsb.html
A new rule promulgated by FinCEN would “ensure that a foreign-located entity engaging in [Money Services Business] activities within the United States is regulated as an MSB. Accordingly, the proposed rule clarifies that certain foreign-located entities engaging in MSB activities within the United States, such as having U.S. customers or transmitting money to, or from, U.S. recipients, are subject to the BSA rules.”
Info on BSA (Bank Secrecy Act/Anti-Money Laundering):
http://www.occ.treas.gov/handbook/bsa.pdf
Patrick
I stand by my statement that your headline is misleading simply because it states that is what the sponsor said. Did he?
Dang Pistol, you’re getting a little soft!
Look at the problems ASD had in their administration department trying to keep track of ad pack purchases and payments. These problems were created having a simple system to input and track. Imagine the nightmare with a multilateral untraceable system such as presented by the supposed to be sister company AVG.
I stand amazed that there are “investors”,”GET RICH QUICK” scam
artist who have who continually discover uninformed, gullible prospects to hand over such significant sums of money to unknown money managers and unqualified business manager like AVG has.People! THINK! If this was legitimate why would they have to go to such indiscreet methods to have the investment or ad purchase so untraceable,.A legitimate company would have any sponsor canceled immediately for using these tactics. Wise up!Think!Be SENSIBLE! Put your money into the lottery maybe you too could win $222 Million . Your chances are just as good as with AVG.Or how about the stock market or real estate.I bet AVGl investors would send money to Madloff in prison to invest for them.
I dont see any material inaccuracy in the headline of the other article at all and nothing that would require a retraction. It sounds like a very straightforward summary of the promoter’s intentions.
The ASD practice of using ASD monopoly money/cash balances to buy ad packs for other members, especially new prospects, in exchange for a check for real money from the prospect to their personal account was widespread and a very successful way for some sponsors to get hard cash in exchange for gving away their paper gains from ASD. The promotions were automatically implemented when the new purchases were registered on the prospect’s account, even though no real money had been received by ASD. The same automatic implementation of promotions will surely apply to the AVGA system.
AVGA seems to have gone one further and even has a member to member “button” which seems to be usable to buy another member ad packs with AVGA monopoly money in the sponsor’s cash balance. As we know, there is an 80/20 scheme to try to stop members cashing out more than 20% of their AVGA money. A “real cash for ad packs” bought with AVGA monopoly money and exchanged for real cash paid to the sponsor is therefore even more attractive to a sponsor who wants to profit quickly from their own investment/ad purchase. Obviously some of the promoters do not believe in the longevity of AVGA and are willing to take the additional risks of money laundering charges.
It also leaves the new member with no claim against the AVGA company, as they have had no cash transaction with it.
Today there have been comments from AVGA members that the Member to Member facility has been removed. Someone seems to think it is another technical glitch related to the 80/20 button, to avoid transfer confusions. Funny thing coincidence. LOL
The only part I do not see is how AVGA itself benefits from any additional cash from the purchase of ads/investments made in this way. I think it is highlt unlikely that any promoter will be using their own real cash to buy adpacks or whatever they are called direct from the AVGA company and suspect that the AVGA company will not be seeing any new real cash as a result of these transactions. In that respect I differ from a few of the procedural steps that you have made Patrick, but the headline seems pretty good to me.
“I dont see any material inaccuracy in the headline of the other article at all and nothing that would require a retraction.”
Let’s be honest about this Alasycia, when it comes to seeing inaccuracies you couldn’t spot them when they were dangled in front of your nose in the glory ASD days. Not only that, when it suited you, you repeated the ASD lies and inaccuracies over and over again.
“It sounds like a very straightforward summary of the promoter’s intentions.”
Indeed it does and, I believe that is exactly what it is. I believe it is Patrick’s interpretation of the promoters words and not his actual words. Of course Patrick can prove me wrong by doing what I have already suggested he do i.e. C&P the original post, in which case I will offer a full apology.
There is a world of difference in saying “Lets go and rob the bank” and Let’s go and withdraw some money from the bank”
“The ASD practice of using ASD monopoly money/cash balances to buy ad packs for other members, especially new prospects, in exchange for a check for real money from the prospect to their personal account was widespread and a very successful way for some sponsors to get hard cash in exchange for gving away their paper gains from ASD.”
You rightfully condemn the practice, Alasycia, but I seem to remember you stating that you had employed the method yourself at one stage or another.The aim was to help your downline, I think you said. Am I correct?
Festa, some people learn from their errors and try to put things right by joining the fight against scams like these. I suspect where you differ from others who oppose scams is that you do not consider anyone capable of learning from experience. Whilst noone is expecting a round of applause or a crown of glory for having been dumb enough to fall for ASD, your recipe for lifetime sack cloth and ashes and perpetual castigation is well known and getting a bit “old” It is also a little counter productive in convincing people who are involved in autosurfs to “learn their way out of them”. Your opinion of this writer is also well known, but I guess you like to repeat yourself.
Some of the people who helped many of us ASD members to “see the light” were in fact “ex scammed” themselves and their patience and shared wisdom has been invaluable. Thanks to you all from many of us. We are now in a position to understand what ASD was all about, and possibly even be able to help stop “the next one” because of our knowledge and experiences with their actual operating procedures. If just a few people have not gone blindly into AVGA because of your patience in helping us, then it has been worth it, and we will continue to put up with Festa’s “guilt trip” with pleasure.
On the subject of headline, it did not purport to be a quotation. Headlines rarely are. It does however, accurately reflect the content of the article, and for that reason, your objections, along with those of Correction and his/her AVGA buddies, have no purpose other than nit pick and gain attention for yourself. this is all to the detriment of the discussion on this blog about the circumvention of the AVGA “machine” by certain of their promoters, in order to obtain cash. And in addition, the promoter refers to large sums of money, and therefore excludes himself from any possibility of good deeds and just “helping out a downline” for 20 or 50 bucks. This, in common with the practices of some of the heavy promoters of ASD, certainly smacks of cash gathering and a remarkable lack of faith in the longevity of the company they are promoting. The words “playa” and “criminal” come to mind.
So there we have it in a nutshell then. The evil and possibly illegal intentions of the promoter is to be determined by who the perpetrator is and how much money is involved. I’m sorry but it doesn’t matter if you steal millions from a bank or steal the milk from a blind mans tea. It is still theft. You are still a thief regardless of how often you tell blind men to keep their eyes on their mug of tea.
Pistol, there you have it in YOUR nutshell, not we.
Another way to interpret what alasycia said is:
That this promoter excluded thyself from a commonly held and heavily played mantra, that a good upline sponsor is there to help out any of their downline irregardless of monetary concern. This promoter’s reference to large sums of money, in effect, defined who they consider to be their downline and exposes their true motive of not helping a downline, just thyself.
So Joe, would you regard Alasycia as a good upline sponsor because she helped out her $20 and $50 downline? Would it not have benefited her at all? What about if she helped out a 100 or even a 1,000 such downliners? What about if she saw the writing on the wall long before she said so publicly and decided to get her money out any way she could? When the thing went belly-up, would her help not have meant money, real money in her pocket and worthless numbers on a screen for her downline? I’ll bet that was the sort of help her downline now regret having been offered and then accepting.But she was only trying to help. All heart is our Alasycia.
It isn’t about alasycia.
It is only about the statement you block quoted and how I thought there could be another meaning in that context.
That’s all, not a statement of support for ponzie or pyramid supporters or sponsors.
OK then. That makes it about as clear as a foggy day in old London town.
Duh? Festa – this thread is not about me, it is about AVGA and the actions of a promoter and Patrick’s willingness to permit a debate on the headline of his other article on this blog. However had your supposition What about if she saw the writing on the wall long before she said so publicly and decided to get her money out any way she could? been true, or any of the other dubious motives, I think horsewhipping would be a mild punishment as it would demonstrate criminal intent and a total absence of moral values. Fortunately, as you well know, this was not the case.
What is serious are the cases within ASD and now the declared intention of some of the AVGA promoters to use their “help” to recruit “high rollers” and walk off with the cash. Ironically, this siphoning off of cash payments to the company will speed up the very lack of sustainability for which AVGA is being criticized.
Interesting to see that AVGA have still not issued any disclaimer about this practice to date.
No, I do not know that at all. I only have your word for it and ponzi participants are not well known for telling the truth when there is money at stake.e.g long after ASD was raided you continued to defend ASD and Bowdoin and kept repeating the lies despite the fact that the truth was out there for all to see.
You doth protest way too much, lady.
You are entitled to your opinion, so there is nothing to add.
Are you saying that is only my opinion and not fact in that last post? Are you saying that you did not, at any time, repeat the ASD/Bowdoin lies after it was shut down following the raid?